Think I need a saddle adjustment

[Jimi2]

Hi everyone, so I’m new to measuring setup specs on my guitars even though I’ve been playing forever, and had a thread last month about the high action on my Breedlove. Measuring things, my Stew Mac style gauge indicates treble action at the 12th fret of .110” (around 7/64) and bass at .120” (almost 8/64). I’m exclusively a finger style guy on acoustics, and I don’t really dig in much, so this feels really high. I don’t recall how long the action has been this high, as l wasn’t playing this guitar often. Capoing the first fret and holding down at the 14th, I’m getting about .008” relief at the 7th fret, so maybe slightly high, but not too bad it seems. String height at the nut seems fine, and there’s a lot of saddle left - never been lowered since I bought the guitar new.

So, a visit to my tech for a setup?

[KevinH]

Everyone's different, but I consider that high. I set mine to 5/64" (0.078", 2 mm) on the bass E and 4/64" (0.062", 1.6mm) on the treble. You could take it to the tech and ask for a new saddle, rather than adjusting the current one, so it could be swapped out if you wanted it higher again.

Or if you like to work on stuff it's not hard to do yourself. Lots of info at frets.com, Bryan Kimsey's website and elsewhere.

[abn556]

That is high for me as well. Its a simple fix for your setup guy. Your neck may have a little too much relief in it. Start there and then work back to the saddle. If you have never adjusted neck relief and are not sure what you are doing, just let your tech take care of it. If you want to do it yourself, keep in mind that small adjustments are the key. To remove relief tighten the truss rod slightly - as in less than 1/8 of a turn clockwise for most truss rods. Give it a bit to settle in then recheck relief. If it still needs more then add another 1/8 turn. Please do not over tighten or just keep turning as you can damage the guitar.

[TheGITM]

Relief looks okay to me. Doesn't seem like you'd want to flatten it our any more than it already is... but can try it.

More likely that it's just the neck alignment. Since it doesn't seem like you know when it happened, it sounds like it could have always been high. Or, it may be that the neck has moved slightly over time, which does happen.

So, yeah, I think you can either try to correct it yourself or take it in to have it setup. If you wanted to correct it yourself, I'd suggest buying a new saddle and adjusting that one. That way you can just swap it out and continue to adjust until you have it where you want it... and you always have the original saddle should you mess something up. I think it would be a cool project, if you're inclined to give it a try...

Let us know what you decide... and how it all turns out!

EDIT TO ADD: You could also try dropping down on string gauge and see how that effects the string height.

[CharlieBman]

Sounds like your saddle height needs to be lowered as that action at the 12th is relatively high, especially if you're "exclusively a finger style guy". It's not hard to learn how to do this yourself, but learning to do your own setups does take a little investment in tools, time, patience, and experience. The knowledge and skill does pays off in the end though. But at the very least, yeah, time for a setup from your tech guy.

[Jimi2]

Thanks guys, so I measured another guitar that feels good to me, and it’s at .06/.07 or around 4/64 and 5/64, so this one definitely needs adjusting. Think I’ll call my tech. I have an old Washburn with a diy headstock repair and a really narrow nut that I’ve been meaning to practice a setup on, so maybe I’ll finally get around to doing that, then donate the guitar. For this, I’ll let my guy take a look at it.

[Guitars44me]

I would suggest checking the relative humidity of the guitar and case.

When you take a guitar into Taylor, for example, for an adjustment, they first stabilize both the guitar and case at about 45% RH.

And, as mentioned above, I also go for about 5/64 and 4/64. And I am tuned down to D as well

Your action is definitely high for finger style. And maybe even high for hard driving flatpicking.

If you have a relationship with a good tech, you’re in business. If not, it’s time to find one.

I prefer to take my guitar to someone who has done thousands and thousands of set ups, as they often find something I have overlooked

I expect you’ll find it plays real easy when this is done!

Cheers

Paul

[Charlie Bernstein]

Fall off your horse again?

[abn556]

A lot of times the “setup” guys at stores do not even look at neck relief or intonation. I have seen guitars come out of nationally known and well respected stores that advertise their “gig ready” setups and ended up having to set neck relief, file saddles and nuts, and address intonation issues. The last 2 guitars that I bought two months ago (different brands) both had nut height issues and intonation problems. I don’t fault the builders as they were probably “in spec”, but the “gig ready” setups were a joke. Every guitar you acquire, by whatever means - new, used, trade, etc…, needs to be setup for your particular playing style.

[Moldstar]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Hi everyone, so I’m new to measuring setup specs on my guitars even though I’ve been playing forever, and had a thread last month about the high action on my Breedlove. Measuring things, my Stew Mac style gauge indicates treble action at the 12th fret of .110” (around 7/64) and bass at .120” (almost 8/64). I’m exclusively a finger style guy on acoustics, and I don’t really dig in much, so this feels really high. I don’t recall how long the action has been this high, as l wasn’t playing this guitar often. Capoing the first fret and holding down at the 14th, I’m getting about .008” relief at the 7th fret, so maybe slightly high, but not too bad it seems. String height at the nut seems fine, and there’s a lot of saddle left - never been lowered since I bought the guitar new.

So, a visit to my tech for a setup?

Yes. That's pretty high. On my guitars, I try for 5/64 on the bass, 4/64 on the treble, and I play loud bluegrass with heavy pick.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by abn556

A lot of times the “setup” guys at stores do not even look at neck relief or intonation. I have seen guitars come out of nationally known and well respected stores that advertise their “gig ready” setups and ended up having to set neck relief, file saddles and nuts, and address intonation issues. The last 2 guitars that I bought two months ago (different brands) both had nut height issues and intonation problems. I don’t fault the builders as they were probably “in spec”, but the “gig ready” setups were a joke. Every guitar you acquire, by whatever means - new, used, trade, etc…, needs to be setup for your particular playing style.

Yeah, I’ve kind of bumbled through with the setups I’ve been given, and usually got lucky; I did buy a Martin that with action that the store was willing to lower for me, but until now I haven’t been able to quantify the setup specs on my guitars. I’ll definitely be paying more attention from now on.

[nikpearson]

… is helpful, but they are less common than you might think.

After frustrations with the quality of work from those tried, I started to learn how to do this myself. And then somehow I enrolled on a building evening class and ten years later I find myself with BA (Hons) in Musical Instrument Crafts!

Along the way I learned there are some builders and techs who know what they are doing and take the time to do things properly.

As it stands your action is high and neck relief possibly could be lowered a little. Adjusting a truss rod is straightforward enough, lowering a saddle harder but still not complicated.

You can buy the essential tools and a good guide book for the price of a few setups. So, find a good person or learn the skills.

[JKA]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

Hi everyone, so I’m new to measuring setup specs on my guitars even though I’ve been playing forever, and had a thread last month about the high action on my Breedlove. Measuring things, my Stew Mac style gauge indicates treble action at the 12th fret of .110” (around 7/64) and bass at .120” (almost 8/64). I’m exclusively a finger style guy on acoustics, and I don’t really dig in much, so this feels really high. I don’t recall how long the action has been this high, as l wasn’t playing this guitar often. Capoing the first fret and holding down at the 14th, I’m getting about .008” relief at the 7th fret, so maybe slightly high, but not too bad it seems. String height at the nut seems fine, and there’s a lot of saddle left - never been lowered since I bought the guitar new.

So, a visit to my tech for a setup?

How does the guitar play? Is it easy to hold the cords down? Does it buzz when you play hard?

I've never taken a measurement in 55 years of playing guitar. I lower the saddle until the guitar plays how I want it to. If I'm not having any issues I leave it alone.

[ProfChris]

Action changes for three reasons:

1. Humidity raises the soundboard dome, dryness lowers it. Lightly built guitars tend to move most with humidity changes.

2. Over time, guitar bodies tend to distort which raises the action - some eventually need neck resets when lowering the saddle further becomes impossible.

3. Structural failures like bridges coming loose or braces popping free can raise the action.

If your guitar doesn't move much and you're happy then there is no need to measure. However, if it does change, measuring can give you an idea what needs to be done and, more important, how much to change things (eg lowering the saddle) to get it back to what you like. Measuring is important if you want advice from others who can't see and hold the guitar - telling me your action is 'high' doesn't tell me enough to help you!