Compression For Guitar At Gigs: Why & How?

[guitaniac]

I'm experienced with applying compression for recording projects, but I've never used compression for guitar at gigs. Now that I have an effects box with multiple compression options (Zoom A1 Four), it seems like a good time to explore those options - especially since I keep reading forum comments from folks who like to use compression for live amplification. I'm curious about what compression tools and methods those folks have found useful for live amplification.

Beyond that, I'm also curious as to the reason(s) why folks are finding compression to be beneficial to their live sound. My "guesstimate" would be that compression is most useful in noisy environments where the useful dynamic window is narrowed down by a high noise floor - with "useful" being the window which extends from what's just loud enough to hear (over the din) to what's just short of painfully loud. I can see how compression could help players to keep their quietest picking and their loudest strumming within that narrow window.

[jonfields45]

My duo covers a lot of classic rock and I'm tasked with most of the single note solos. With all the full step stretches and pull-offs I translate as much as possible to the high-E and B strings. I find boost with compression makes it easier to play and sound better. By sounding better it is more about a full sound and sustain, not being more acoustic guitar like.

In addition to the Mooer 5-band mini EQ I also have an MXR mini Dyna Comp in my guitar case (along with a battery and the necessary cables to power them). These are the back up to my HX Stomp. I started carrying a backup when I had a power supply failure at a gig (which turned out to be a bad extension cord).

[guitaniac]

Thanks for the comments, Jon. My Zoom A1-Four has a simulated MXR Dyna Comp, so I can definitely give that a try.

I also took a look at the HX Stomp. What a comprehensive and versatile piece of gear that appears to be. I suspect its a great tool for your gigging arsenal - providing the extension cord is good.

Thanks again.

[varmonter]

You pretty much nailed as to my reasons
for comp at a gig. I also use a stomp
and i think there is a comp block in all
my presets. Stomps "red comp" is suppose to model mxrs dyna comp.
i also use it for that creamy saturated
electric lead riffs. my taylor sounds
like claptons ... Ha well maybe not like
claptons playing.. But im going for his
tone on some things.
Combining some amp/cab blocks and
compression comes pretty close.
For all things acoustic sounding I use some compression so my soft parts and
my loud strumming all come out nice
and even in the mix.. Its fun to play with

[KevWind]

I used a good limiter type compression even for my quiet solo acoustic gigs for both guitar and vocal. Specifically the 2 chanel Langevin DVC pre eq limiter combo.

Because just as in recording, the other often overlooked function of well executed compression, (besides sit in the mix or narrow the dynamic range) , is to simply move the sound a bit more forward in the sound stage. Which often gets confused with just more volume , but is actually not just simply louder. Particularly since use of Reverb tends to move the sound back in the soundstage.

[Mr. Jelly]

Live compression can be misleading. It sounds louder but isn't or at least it doesn't cut through the mix as well as uncompressed signals. I've seen live band lead guitar players switch to gained compressed signals from uncompressed signals and they totally drop out of the mix in the front of the house.

[FrankHudson]

I don't play live very often, and my aims may not match yours, but I'll include these odd things for other readers of the thread:

I almost always use compression of some kind for electric slide guitar. That Bonnie Raitt/Lowell George slide guitar sound uses compression to get that legato sustain. Early on Lowell George used simple stomp box compressors live I believe.

Similarly, I love the Byrds' electric 12-string sound and McGuinn's leads are highly compressed. I bought a Janglebox several years back and it woke up my electric 12-string and made it easier to get that sound.

I've found compression is also one of the best ways to get feedback wails at lower volumes. Of course that's a problem for some players to be avoided, but there are things I do where I want to generate feedback.

I may well choose to use some compression on acoustic guitars when recording, but I've never wanted it live. There that feedback issue is a problem.

[DenverSteve]

Why? Because you like the sound of it. How? ................ a compressor pedal or part of your multi-effects.

[guitaniac]

Thanks for all the excellent observations from everyone. Not all of it is applicable to my personal playing needs, but its all interesting.

I occasionally intersperse solo runs with strumming, but judging from my performance videos, I don't have a big problem with the flat-picked solo runs falling beneath the noise floor. I'm not looking to increase sustain or play electric guitar-like leads, so maybe I don't need much (or any) compression in that area.

The area where I thought compression might be most helpful was in tightening up the dynamics of my bare-fingered picking so that I can hear all the picked strings above the noise floor. As Mr. Hudson has observed, however, cranking the compression tends to reduce the level of feedback-free gain which can be used. (I've observed this myself, being a soundman who has experimented with using compression on singers whose only mic "technique" is to eat the mic whether they are whispering or shouting.)

I'm not sure if there is a happy compromise level of compression which will help my finger-pad picking situation. I can easily give it some experimentation, however. I'm already using the Zoom A1 Four to create fingerpad-friendly patches by employing small-bodied guitar models and EQing for less bass and more treble (than the strumming patches). It should be easy to create and test nearly identical patches where compression is the only variable.

[guitarman68]

When recording and mixing in the studio, I rarely use compression in an all acoustic session, maybe sometimes in a lead acoustic part, but it heavily depends on the player and session / application.

When performing live (me playing guitar) I recently started to like the effect of some soft compression on rhythm guitar and lead or fingerpicked guitar for different reasons:
Using compression on rhythm guitar (pickup is K&K or James May UltraTonic) to me sounds a tad more natural and mic like (results may vary with different pickups and players). Never felt the need for compression when using my Dazzo- or Schatten-equipped guitars, which sound very natural.
Using compression on fingerpicking or lead guitar gives a bit more sustain and what you perfectly described with your "window" thing.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

I'm not sure if there is a happy compromise level of compression which will help my finger-pad picking situation.

It is a very subtle dynamic. by increasing or decreasing the threashold
and or output. I think you could find
what you need. With modulation effects
we tend to turn them to the point of too
much and then back them off. with dynamic effects like compression that
point is much broader. I think we tend
to want to hear that its doing something
and that point is usually too much.
Like Q in a parametric. its a wider curve
.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

…I'm also curious as to the reason(s) why folks are finding compression to be beneficial to their live sound.

Hi g-niac

I used to. I used a rack mount studio compressor, with a 1:3 ratio, soft knee, med release setting as a Sound Man Frustrater. Another name would be 'output volume regulator'.

I'm a finger styler, and in the 1990s I got tired of playing gigs, where I'd switch from fingerstyle to strumming & the sound tech would turn me down manually at the board…then when I went back to finger styling, they did NOT turn me back up.

The compressor regulated the volume of my strumming downward to match the volume of my fingerstyle (which needed to be the same volume as the strumming). It gave me the ability to raise the volume of my finger style playing while holding the output volume of the strumming to a similar level.

With the advent of better PA mixers, better techs, better pickup rigs in guitars and my playing improving (when I play these days, I strum at the same volume that I finger style), I eliminated compressors about 15 years ago.

I still use compression with my electrics to increase sustain, and not peel back people's foreheads when using heavier distortion voices.

[guitaniac]

Once again, very good input from everyone.

I had to laugh (in recognition) at Varmonter's comment that if you can tell that the compression is there its probably too much. That's the exact same thing that Harvey Reid used to say about reverb.

My method for keeping it subtle, BTW, will be to try the same compressor settings that the Zoom techs have chosen for some of the factory-loaded patches. They seem to favor the rack compressor with threshold, knee, compression ratio and output level parameters.

I also got a good laugh at LJ's "sound man frustrator" comment. I was reminded of an occasion when my use of compression on a vocal mic greatly frustrated a singer whose "style" was apparently to abuse his listeners' ears intentionally. I suspect that the screaming sections of his performance would have been just as dramatic and much more enjoyable at a decent distance from the mic.

Lastly, I feel that guitarman68 makes a good point about some pickups seem to require compression more than others. My direct recording comparison of a Baggs Lyric vs UST w/Zoom A1 Four modeling (in the same guitar) got me to thinking that the UST/modeling recording seemed smoother and a bit more appealing for that reason. The Lyric recordings were much more articulate, but seemed less under control dynamically. I'll be experimenting with compressing those Lyric sound samples in a few days when I have more time.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi g-niac

I'm a finger styler, and in the 1990s I got tired of playing gigs, where I'd switch from fingerstyle to strumming & the sound tech would turn me down manually at the board…then when I went back to finger styling, they did NOT turn me back up.



The compressor regulated the volume of my strumming downward to match the volume of my fingerstyle (which needed to be the same volume as the strumming). It gave me the ability to raise the volume of my finger style playing while holding the output volume of the strumming to a similar level.

This! I do the exact same thing for the exact same reason. Compression helps my fingerpicking to pop out more. It’s a delicate adjustment, too much kills your dynamics. Just enough though can really be nice.

[cdkrugjr]

I'll set my gain structure such that fingerpicking is "there" with the compressor kicking in when I strum harder.

I don't want a "Country Squash" sound, but just enough to tame some of the scarier dynamics.

I like a comp with a display so I can see what it's actually doing. I find that a two-knob like a Dyna-Comp is just too Squashy and, though were I playing Country Chicken Pickin' or Slide it would be my go-to.

I think for Acoustic you really need a higher-end compressor than you can get away with for electric, but as soon as I say that I know someone will chime in how they've been playing their Collings through a Dyna-Comp for years...