AI and home recording

[Doug Young]

BTW, one example of AI generation I just recently came across is a site called udio.com. Works similar to ChatGPT, etc. Describe what you want and it generates it. I tried "a delicate english folk ballad accompanied by solo acoustic fingerstyle guitar" and got something that sounded amazingly Pentangle-like. You can enter lyrics for vocals and it will sing those, or it just generates stuff.

In my brief attempts, I didn't find you could control it all that well, tho. I tried to convince it to play a solo melody on a violin, for example, something I could perhaps play along with, and it insisted on giving me a full band thing where I didn't even hear a violin.

[BlueStarfish]

Just wasted an hour playing with the new Logic Pro virtual bass player and upgrade virtual drummer. Haven’t tried the virtual keyboard player yet. I’m using the iPad version, not the Mac version, so it’s all touch-screen.

The big step forward is that Apple added a new “manual” rhythm pattern option for both the drummer and bass players. This brings up a standard sequencer grid which allows you to actually punch in the basic rhythm pattern you want for that particular region. So if I want basic kick-and-snare back beat … I just punch that in. Much better than than the old interface, this is a big improvement! You can punch in the basic rhythm pattern you want for the bass player as well.

The program will try to interpret chords from your guitar rhythm track, but that part only seems about 75% accurate against a basic boom-chuck rhythm, which isn’t good enough to be useful. So plan on clearing out the AI-guessed chords and entering the chords yourself. Unfortunately Logic Pro doesn’t do Nashville Notation (or at least I haven’t found the toggle yet). So you’ll have to enter letter-based chord symbols in concert key so that your virtual bass player knows the chords.

My quick take is that, with the new sequencer interface, the new virtual session player modules are useful. Not nearly as good as having a real drummer or bass player of course. But I’m making music at home in a corner of the kitchen, not in a professional studio, so even if I had a drummer next to me I would not be able to properly record her. If you already have Logic Pro, it’s a free and very nice upgrade.

Back to the original AI question … there is also a different new AI-based plugin called “ChromaGlow.” It claims to add some vintage analog saturation to your tracks. I have no idea if it’s accurate to any particular piece of reference analog gear, but with 5 mins of knob-turning, it seemed pleasant and useful.

[Acousticado]

Thanks for your insights, guys, especially wrt to Logic. It seems that tech developers are in fact making significant AI advancements toward the level of backing track automation I’ve been wondering about, and likely will soon achieve.

Although some of my original songs will be best served with just my vocal and acoustic guitar, I do long to hear some of my others with pro sounding full band treatment. I will never realize live keyboard, bass, drum, etc. players in my home, let-alone pro level for me to record them with all the skill and experience that entails, and I may never achieve a level of VI proficiency to produce what AI may evolve to help with.

For what I would intend to do in supplementing the fundamental elements of an original song, I don’t consider such backing tracks treatment as “cheating” any more than what real musicians may bring to the table with their interpretation and delivery that I can’t do myself, or my own attempts with VIs. But that’s just me. I suspect that most home recordists will be taking advantage of whatever technologies emerge to serve the betterment of our original songs.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Although some of my original songs will be best served with just my vocal and acoustic guitar, I do long to hear some of my others with pro sounding full band treatment. I will never realize live keyboard, bass, drum, etc. players in my home, let-alone pro level for me to record them with all the skill and experience that entails, and I may never achieve a level of VI proficiency to produce what AI may evolve to help with.

Another approach is to get others to play on your tracks remotely. Fiverr has tons of players who are happy to overdub tracks for you for a fairly modest fee. AirGigs is another site dedicated to this. You just specify your project, provide a chart if you can, tell them what you want, etc, and they quote you a price. Can be as low as $10 or $20 for something simple.

I've used several people on these sites and it all worked well. Very efficient, and the results were excellent. My son does it for his alternative rock stuff all the time as well. There are people on these sites that range from another guy in his bedroom (who of course might be very good...) to pros in name bands.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Another approach is to get others to play on your tracks remotely. Fiverr has tons of players who are happy to overdub tracks for you for a fairly modest fee. AirGigs is another site dedicated to this. You just specify your project, provide a chart if you can, tell them what you want, etc, and they quote you a price. Can be as low as $10 or $20 for something simple.

I've used several people on these sites and it all worked well. Very efficient, and the results were excellent. My son does it for his alternative rock stuff all the time as well. There are people on these sites that range from another guy in his bedroom (who of course might be very good...) to pros in name bands.

Thanks Doug. I hadn’t considered that at all. Interesting option. Food for thought, for sure.

[keith.rogers]

I spentmaybe 5 minutes testing the new bass and keyboard additions to Logic Pro 11 yesterday. I’ll probably spend some time with the bass because it does include an upright bass and I’ve used some of the percussion additions in the previous version.

I didn’t try to add anything to existing projects but I’ll go dig one out in the next week, maybe. Just with the default chord track they put in, I thought the bass and keys tracked them really well. (I wouldn’t rely on anything following my rhythm guitar and coming up with what I want!)

Here’s two very short samples of completely “SI” tracks. (Same project with Logic default progression - just changed keys and drummer “musicians” a little.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cTM...w?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i7e...w?usp=drivesdk

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

In my brief attempts, I didn't find you could control it all that well, tho. I tried to convince it to play a solo melody on a violin, for example, something I could perhaps play along with, and it insisted on giving me a full band thing where I didn't even hear a violin.

And for the time being, I think that's where AI falls short. It will give you something but getting it to give you exactly what you want is still a challenge.

But I think you unintentionally hit upon another problem when you said you "got something that sounded amazingly Pentangle-like." AI is drawing upon what already exists and the possibility of an AI generated tune being too close to something already written seems a real one to me.

[jpmist]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Another approach is to get others to play on your tracks remotely. Fiverr has tons of players who are happy to overdub tracks for you for a fairly modest fee. AirGigs is another site dedicated to this. You just specify your project, provide a chart if you can, tell them what you want, etc, and they quote you a price. Can be as low as $10 or $20 for something simple.

Thanks so much for mentioning those sites! I checked them out and they seemed promising.

What I have in mind is a Knopfler cover I GarageBand recorded well over 10 years ago then lost the GB file in a hard drive crash. I have an .aiff of the final mix but while it's one of the best covers and recordings I've done, the vocal is horribly flawed as it's a step or two below my range. As much as I like the track I curse myself for losing the stems so I could fix the vocal.

I tried using Melodyne a few years ago but the issue is that when a guitar track bleeds into the vocal the tuned result has some awful chorusing artifacts. Has the state of art evolved such that someone on AirGigs can fix my vocals without diminishing my track? TIA

[FrankHudson]

I just got done yesterday with playing with the new version of Logic on my 2018 Intel Mac Mini, with emphasis on the new bass, keyboard, and drummer "Studio Players." First thoughts:

The automatic stuff it will do is likely suitable for quick & dirty backing tracks for practice or bluesky songwriting. If you open up a project in the key of C, it'll supply a simple, familiar chord sequence.

Next level: you can enter in your own chords instead of its suggestions (reminds me of Band in a Box) and it will play notes in various ways on bass or keys over those chords. It also has a menu for some "Nashville" style Roman numeral progression alternatives. There are sliders too and choices to make the playing more on the steady and on the grid or not, or how complex the parts it will play are etc. I wouldn't call it AI myself, but it's more like a more varied arpeggiator. Simple arpeggiators that have existed for decades and are fine for "Phillip Glass" style parts, but these Logic Studio player parts sound more varied/human. As someone noted before, you can also make your own beat accent pattern choices via a simplified measure gadget.

It appears you can use other Virtual Instruments via the piano Studio Player. I set up a patch in Logic's long-existing Alchemy synth VI and had the "piano" Studio Player play it. As a naïve piano player, I've used arpeggiators and one-key chords/intervals to fake "real" keyboard playing, and I can see redirecting this new Studio Player to do things close to my intention as a composer.

Most unexpected thing: the Logic Studio Drummer that's been around for years has been revamped, and from a couple of hours playing with it, I think it's noticeably improved. You still have to work to get it to do more what you want it to do, but the new version has controls I liked better than the previous ones.

Someone above mentioned that Logic can't do some kinds of simple country beats. It can likely be forced to with the new player, as the new controls make it easy to dial it back to simple patterns. My own main frustration is that it is hard to get it to work like a real Jazz drummer -- that style of music just isn't in its bailiwick. I tend to use EZ Drummer when I want Jazz drumming.

I play bass myself, and enjoy it, though I'm limited and inconsistent on that instrument. The Studio Bass Player easily produced nice parts in various pop, dance, and R&B styles following Logic Pro 11's chord track. As sloppy a bass-player as I am, I'm likely to still play those parts myself, but the capability is there for those who want something.

The Logic 11 chord track is a key new feature. My personal composer focus is comfortable with that. Someone mentioned it would be cool if it would do Nashville numbers instead of chord symbols (I vi IV V instead of C Am F G). In my short playing around it looks like the chord track can follow-on transpose if you modulate or want to capo to a new position.

[jim1960]

Revisiting the point I made about AI drawing from the real world, here are a couple of voice over artists who did sessions and now find their voices being used in things for which they're not being paid. Until AI figures out how to not plagiarize or outright steal, I think it's a risky business that will mostly benefit the lawyers who become experts in AI litigation.

They claim AI stole their voices. Now they’re suing

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

. . . I’m curious to know if AI can analyze the fundamentally recorded tracks to be able to create interesting tracks of other instruments to supplement the song. . . .

Within the range of data it can harvest, it'll do exactly what you tell it to do.

[kurth]

It will give a result . Almost certainly not what you would've created yourself. You might like it even more than your version. And therein lies the absurdity.

By far the most interesting thing I learned on this thread is Doug's idea. Real collaborators who can be had for not too much dough, and credited therein.

Is AI a rulebuster? I don't know but bet that's true....in songwriting contests.

I've been an active creator for 60yrs....in every medium you can name...even science, and "a creation" is the only thing in this world where the creator has real control. The creation is the only thing a person can do that's 100% theirs. It's the only place humans are really free.

I'd rather be a blind keyboardist than a dj.

No thanks. To give up my freedom to a computer jajajaja is the most absurd, and possibly dangerous thing I could do. Mate...the fun is the process. Letting a machine do the process for you is a copout. I would prefer to not have instrumentation otherwise. Or other solutions. Midi guitar being one easy solution to not playing keyboards. Or lots of midi controllers have chord mode. That's just pushing one simple key....?