Translating from piano to guitar

[Minotaur]

Has anyone ever taken a piano song and translated it to guitar?

I want to take Magic Mirror from Carney, Leon Russell, which he did on piano, and do it on acoustic guitar.

Apparently the song is out of print, but a guy from Australia was good enough to send me a copy he transcribed from an old book he has. It wasn't lined up properly, which he apologized for. I did my best to align it. This is pretty much what I/we came up with...

Optional: Intro & between verses.

...2x.............................1x .......Entire riff 2x
|------------------------------|--------------------------|
|-----3--5---------------------|--------------------------|
|--4--------4-/-3--0-----------|--------------------------|
|---------------------2--0--2--|--4--5--4--5--4--2--0--2--|
|------------------------------|--------------------------|
|------------------------------|--------------------------|

Basic strum pattern is D U based on piano:
Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7

Em....................Am7
Standing by the highway, suitcase by my side
B7.....................Am7
No place I want to go, just thought I’d catch a ride

Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7

Em...................Em7......................Am7
Many people look my way, and many pass me by
B7..................................Am7
In moments of reflection I wonder why

Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7

(skips a couple of verses for brevity)

B7........Em7......................Am7............ ....B7...........Em7
Magic Mirror won’t you tell me please, do I find myself in anyone I see
B7.......Em7.................Am7.........B7....... Em7
Magic Mirror if we only could try to see ourselves as others would

Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7 Em Bm7


Anyone ever done anything like this?

[fttfbass]

Yeah, "Speeding Cars" by Imogen Heap. The singer that I'm about to get together with loves this song.

[DupleMeter]

I don't know the song - but I've done many piano > guitar arrangements. One of the biggest hurdles is the relatively small range of guitar when compared to piano. Also, the chord voicing are, by nature of the instruments, very different.

This one sounds pretty easily done though, you're in E harmonic minor, so the I & IV chords have open string bass roots...that will help a bunch.

[Laird_Williams]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I don't know the song - but I've done many piano > guitar arrangements. One of the biggest hurdles is the relatively small range of guitar when compared to piano. Also, the chord voicing are, by nature of the instruments, very different.

This one sounds pretty easily done though, you're in E harmonic minor, so the I & IV chords have open string bass roots...that will help a bunch.

And if you want to add some easy color and interest, try leaving the 1st and/or 2nd strings open for some of the chords where you would not normally do so, even if you are used to fretting them. These would be the 1 and 5 of the key (E and B), so they will TEND to be consonant with almost any chord in that key - even one that would normally have those two notes.

[Minotaur]

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I don't know the song - but I've done many piano > guitar arrangements. One of the biggest hurdles is the relatively small range of guitar when compared to piano. Also, the chord voicing are, by nature of the instruments, very different.

My former teaching pointed out half joking that pianists have 10 fingers to use to form chords and melodies; guitarists and bassists have 5.

This one sounds pretty easily done though, you're in E harmonic minor, so the I & IV chords have open string bass roots...that will help a bunch.

Originally Posted by Laird_Williams

And if you want to add some easy color and interest, try leaving the 1st and/or 2nd strings open for some of the chords where you would not normally do so, even if you are used to fretting them. These would be the 1 and 5 of the key (E and B), so they will TEND to be consonant with almost any chord in that key - even one that would normally have those two notes.

I've found that at this stage of my playing and learning the biggest challenge is to get the "passing notes" of the piano into the guitar. I can get the basic piano rhythm down easily enough on the guitar. It's just the little passing notes I have to listen for to kind of round it out. If I understand correctly that's what you're referring to obtaining with tweaking how the chords are played.

That's why I was wondering if anyone has made the transition from a piano piece to guitar. I know it can be done, with experience and experimenting. Imagine, Let It Be and Hey Jude are examples are of very easy ones to do. This one is a little more of a challenge since Leon Russell is primarily a pianist, though I've seen him play bass.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I've found that at this stage of my playing and learning the biggest challenge is to get the "passing notes" of the piano into the guitar. I can get the basic piano rhythm down easily enough on the guitar. It's just the little passing notes I have to listen for to kind of round it out. If I understand correctly that's what you're referring to obtaining with tweaking how the chords are played.

The passing notes are going to be chord tones (the - (minus) means minor - it's a jazz thing):
E- : e g b
E-7 : e g b d
A- : a c e
A-7 : a c e g
B7 : b d# f# a
scale tones : e f# g a b c d d# (use the d# over the B7 chord but not over the E- or A-, use the d there)
or chromatic approach notes (half step above/below your target note).

re-voice the chords to change the low note to accommodate the low note the piano is playing to "push" the chords along to the next (bass motion).

The inverse is also going to be true - listen to the top notes in the piano part and voice the chord to get that the same - it will make it sound more like the song because you'll have the bass motion and lead voicing doing the same thing. Though, it's likely you'll be condensing the range by an octave or 2 to accommodate the guitar.

Does that make sense - it't a lot harder to type about this than to explain to someone sitting next to you

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

The passing notes are going to be chord tones (the - (minus) means minor - it's a jazz thing):
E- : e g b
E-7 : e g b d
A- : a c e
A-7 : a c e g
B7 : b d# f# a
scale tones : e f# g a b c d d# (use the d# over the B7 chord but not over the E- or A-, use the d there)
or chromatic approach notes (half step above/below your target note).

I think I understand this part. If I don't, you can hop a flight to NJ and whack me upside the head.

It sounds like I'd be doing the same thing as in playing bass... you usually play a chord note over the chord being played. You can even play a non-chord note depending on the effect you want.

Listening to the intro, he's playing (sounds like) an arpeggio of B D E B A# G E D E F# G F# G F# E D E over the Em Bm7 progression. So, before you posted this I was thinking of slipping in those notes where they belong to the chords.

re-voice the chords to change the low note to accommodate the low note the piano is playing to "push" the chords along to the next (bass motion).

This one I don't think I understand [scratches head]. I mean, I know how to re-voice a chord, but I don't understand its relation to the low note and moving the chord along to the next part.

These are the voicings of the chords I am using...







Btw, please don't think I'm asking anyone to do my "homework" for me or finish this out. I've just never done a transcription like this. Imagine was a piece of cake, as was Werewolves of London (mine even sounds better than some on Youtube ).

The sad part is that this was the last thing I was working on when I quit lessons. My teacher listened to the song and said that basically the chord sheet I had was correct, though it didn't have the beginning arpeggio. He tabbed it out and said "well but do you really want to use it?" Uh yeah... it's part of the song, isn't it? Wonder why people quit lessons?

[open strings]

can't help, but that album was a landmark for me. I'm gonna hitch a ride on the help you get!

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by open strings

can't help, but that album was a landmark for me. I'm gonna hitch a ride on the help you get!

Welcome aboard. There'll never be another Carney. Baby Jane gets me teary: "I see her in the sky, in the early morning rain, oh baby, baby, baby Jane."

[Bern]

I've done piano to guitar transcriptions. Obviously, a lot has to be left out to make it applicable for solo guitar. Sometimes it sounds good...sometimes it sounds just to empty. It really depends on the complexity of the piano piece.

[DupleMeter]

I think you have it - you're just are doubting yourself. It's a lot like being a bass player. The idea of lead voicing is to try to keep the melody as the highest note - which you're probably already doing.

I always have my students think about chords in small chunks (3 & 4 strings at a time). Think about each of the chords from the song and find ways to play them on 3 strings at a time (e b g and then b g d strings). Find as many places as you can to play these.

Keep in mind a 7 chord has 4 notes so a 3-string version will sacrifice one of those notes. The order for that is: 5th of the chord is the first choice, root of the chord is the 2nd.

it opens up your chord vocabulary to new textures and feels - many of which are more piano like.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Bern

I've done piano to guitar transcriptions. Obviously, a lot has to be left out to make it applicable for solo guitar. Sometimes it sounds good...sometimes it sounds just to empty. It really depends on the complexity of the piano piece.

Yeah, I realized that even in spite of my snarky comment about the arpeggio and my teacher asking if I really want to use it. Not only is it part of the song, but maybe some day I'll play with another guy or two and he might play it on guitar 2 or a keyboard. But for solo guitar it's true you have to sacrifice some things.

In Heart of Gold I either have to leave out the harmonica solo or play it as a melody line, which I can do. But to go from playing rhythm to a single melody line, the bottom kind of drops out. My project is to work the melody into the chords. It won't be an exact replica of how he plays it, but like my sig. means, you can play a song any number of ways and the original artist is not going to come gunning for you.

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I think you have it - you're just are doubting yourself. It's a lot like being a bass player. The idea of lead voicing is to try to keep the melody as the highest note - which you're probably already doing.

I always second guess myself. Bad habit.

I did some reworking of it and yeah, it sounds a lot better. I was not as far off as I thought. What was throwing me badly was what I told Bern about the arpeggio. It's not really a melody because he doesn't use it except in the intro. The other passing notes are chord notes and I am getting them; apparently I have been, but I was hung up on the arpeggio. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

Keep in mind a 7 chord has 4 notes so a 3-string version will sacrifice one of those notes. The order for that is: 5th of the chord is the first choice, root of the chord is the 2nd.

So if you could only play 3 notes of a 7th chord your preferences would be
1. R 3 7
2. 3 5 7

That also makes an interesting bass line. I'm learning to get a little daring (only playing bass about 6 weeks, got it for Christmas). Typical bass lines are R and any combination of, inclusion or exclusion of R 3 5 7. You could thump away all night on R only. But I have a feeling you know that, and I'm digressing again.

Thanks so much for the help. I know I'll never be able to return it...

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

So if you could only play 3 notes of a 7th chord your preferences would be
1. R 3 7
2. 3 5 7

That also makes an interesting bass line. I'm learning to get a little daring (only playing bass about 6 weeks, got it for Christmas). Typical bass lines are R and any combination of, inclusion or exclusion of R 3 5 7. You could thump away all night on R only. But I have a feeling you know that, and I'm digressing again.

Thanks so much for the help. I know I'll never be able to return it...

Yes - R 3 7 or 3 5 7 for the 3 note voicings - they don't have to be in that note order...but they usually will.

Playing bass is a great way to become more conscious of bass motion from chord to chord - and you get initiated into chord patterns (e.g. major: 1 3 5, minor 1 b3 5, Dominant: 1 3 5 b7, Maj7: 1 3 5 7, et al) very quickly. I play & teach bass as well as guitar. Plus, those other passing note methods come in very handy (scale tones & chromatic approach) on bass.

No need to repay - it's all about sharing the craft.