Wider bridge plate and saddle?

[Matthjs]

Has anyone had any experience with having replaced your existing bridge plate and saddle for a wider one? I watched a video of Dan Lashbrook talking about making the change on a guitar that he had worked on. I reached out to him to inquire as to the reasoning behind the switch. He was very kind and got right back to me. He said he got the idea from the early (pre-war) Martins. As I understand it, he believes that the wider bridge and saddle causes the guitar to play more loudly due to spreading the bridge pressure vibrations more widely across the top. I’ve noticed that some of the new guitars that have been designed based on Martin pre war specifications also have the wider bridge and saddle.

Does anyone have any personal experience in this area? Does anyone know why Martin abandoned the design concept for the current narrower bridge design?

[blindboyjimi]

I am not at all sure of what you mean by a wider bridge plate and saddle. Do you mean bridge and bridge plate or saddle spacing? As far as pre-war Martins go, they used to have smaller pyramid bridges and very narrow bridge plates while having a longer through saddle that is glued in. As warranty work and the need for sturdier guitars for heavy gauge high tension strings, Martin got progressively bigger with belly bridges and then ever-increasing bracing stiffness which helped the stability of the guitar but hurt the tone.

Pre-war Martins are cherished for the incredible lightness of the wood, bracing, bridge plate. etc and those that have lasted without self-combusting are therefore quite expensive.

If you are talking from a playability standpoint, I have changed many guitars to a wider saddle spacing, but I don't feel that this spreads any power or makes a guitar louder.

[warfrat73]

Martin also moved to bigger bridge plates in the late 60s or early 70s (and switched from maple to rosewood). These larger rosewood bridge plates are often cited as one of the reasons that 70s Martins tend not to sound as good as other eras. Replacing the larger rosewood bridge plates with smaller maple ones is usually one of the first mods that people do to try to improve the tone of those guitars.

So, that would seem to be kind of the opposite.

[printer2]

I built a walnut topped guitar which had the notes jump off of the soundboard. Over time the bridge pealed off. I increased the bridge plate size and reglued the bridge. The guitar only sounds 'normal' now. Not bad but no magic.

[Matthjs]

Thanks to all for your feedback. There are so many different thoughts on what drives the optimization of the sound of a guitar. It gets hard to separate the actual science from the varied opinions.

[blindboyjimi]

Originally Posted by Matthjs

Thanks to all for your feedback. There are so many different thoughts on what drives the optimization of the sound of a guitar. It gets hard to separate the actual science from the varied opinions.

I think the science is pretty clear. If you look at the builders that have 5+year wait list with starting prices around $10,000, all are using top grade wood that they individually tap tone, all are using the stiffest bridge plate material, usually maple, black locust or rosewood to translate that to the top, and brace it as lightly as possible. Every guitar in my music room after years of collecting, is incredibly light weight and incredibly responsive. But they do differ in top wood, back and side wood, bracing, bridge plate species, neck attachment, etc. So there’s more than one way to get to the endpoint, but the means are always to build as light as the tension of the strings demand and no more.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Matthjs

Has anyone had any experience with having replaced your existing bridge plate and saddle for a wider one? I watched a video of Dan Lashbrook talking about making the change on a guitar that he had worked on. I reached out to him to inquire as to the reasoning behind the switch. He was very kind and got right back to me. He said he got the idea from the early (pre-war) Martins. As I understand it, he believes that the wider bridge and saddle causes the guitar to play more loudly due to spreading the bridge pressure vibrations more widely across the top. I’ve noticed that some of the new guitars that have been designed based on Martin pre war specifications also have the wider bridge and saddle.

Does anyone have any personal experience in this area? Does anyone know why Martin abandoned the design concept for the current narrower bridge design?

Hi Matthjs

Are you referring to the bridge itself and calling it the bridge-plate? The bridge plate is the inside most piece of wood spanning from brace-to-brace inside the guitar (below where the X-brace crosses closest to the soundhole).

Outside to inside an acoustic guitar has…

• The saddle seated in the slot in the bridge which the strings bear down on
• The bridge itself glued to the top
• The top of the guitar which the bridge is glued to
• The Bridge Plate glued to the underside of the top

It's like a sandwich. I'm just trying to understand your suggestion.

Here'a picture of the inside of an X-braced acoustic with the bridge plate being closest layer to the camera…(highlighted in green)

If indeed you are referring to the bridge (not the bridge plate) then a larger one could affect projection/volume/clarity of the instrument.

I've also experienced a vast improvement of the projection of a guitar where the slot in the bridge was improperly leveled (it was NOT level) and when it was routed properly the saddle seated better and increased the volume/projection/clarity of the instrument vastly!

[Alan Carruth]

Probably the mass and stiffness of the bridge and bridge plate matter more than the physical size for sound production. A small ebony 'bar' bridge might weigh more than a larger 'belly' bridge made of walnut, and both could be similar in stiffness. Which the maker chooses to use might depend on several things. I like to use a larger walnut bridge, for example, on a cedar top, because the larger glue footprint and greater depth along the line of pull help keep it from peeling up so easily. The bridge plate is often sized according to the bridge size, and can be tapered in thickness to reduce unneeded weight. As with everything involving guitars, it's complicated, and everybody seems to have a slightly different opinion.