Stolen 2016 D-28 Authentic #1938327

s4rest · #1 03-22-2019, 06:10 AM

Sadly I was a victim of Paypal fraud. My 2016 D-28 Authentic serial 1938327 was stolen March 3. Shipped to 1140 River Rd, 7012196, New Castle, DE 19720. Please share with guitar shops or anyone else.

I'm hoping by posting this a) I can get my guitar back and b) you learn from my bonehead mistake.

What happened is during an exceptionally crazy day both personally and professionally I received payment with an international account with the shipping address in China. I was moving fast, had the guitar ready for shipment to the DE location we agreed to via email and sent off the instrument. Buyer in China says they never received, PayPal reimburses them since China address isn’t DE. Now I have negative balance I’m obligated to pay off. Stupid and embarrassing on my part. I’ve had great fun buying and selling guitars over the years in this forum and others and have been fortunate to make great friends in the process.

Through Facebook posts and pm's from other forums, I've learned this location has been associated with other fraud claims which I'm working to pursue with the authorities.

If someone who is an admin, can you please contact me back channel? The buyer made reference to an ad I placed here, and I'd like to see if he's a member.

Again, hopefully you learn from my mistake!

Steve

Godfather · #2 03-22-2019, 06:41 AM

Curious...was it shipped to a "PayPal verified address"?

s4rest · #3 03-22-2019, 06:52 AM

That's a great question. Let me check

UncleJesse · #4 03-22-2019, 06:53 AM

This sucks. Didn't the china stuff set off any alarm bells? Hindsight is 20/20 though.

rmp · #5 03-22-2019, 06:55 AM

Wow.. this is horrible. I hate these scammers... scum of the earth.

s4rest · #6 03-22-2019, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

This sucks. Didn't the china stuff set off any alarm bells? Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Well, I received payment and validated on my mobile app, not paying enough attention it was international and assumed it was ok. Bonehead move on my part.

I thought I was dealing with the Delawarese, not the Chinese....

cap217 · #7 03-22-2019, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Curious...was it shipped to a "PayPal verified address"?

Im curious too because some international buyers have verified shipping posts setup with paypal. Im not sure how they do that but I had a China buyer for a fender strat before and he used paypal and it was verified but I told him I wouldnt do the transaction no matter what. This was through Reverb so I called and messaged reverb to double confirm my options and they said that if I used Reverb Checkout (I didnt have that option as a seller set up yet) then they assume all responsibility because they verify the address. So I did what they said because it was a guitar that I had trouble selling.

Anyways, it worked out and I felt lucky. Then every sale I did is now US only. Although I sold a set of Ron Ellis pickups to a guy in Australia with no issue but I triple verified and contacted old sellers about him first. Its just a pain. But I wouldnt be selling a $4k guitar this was just dealing with customs, docs, shipping costs, the worry of shipping an acoustic that far, etc...

Sorry, this sucks and I wish we had a large system of good and bad buyers/sellers because we could go back to the old days of sending checks if someone was highly trusted.

cap217 · #8 03-22-2019, 07:44 AM

Oh, the other thing I do on larger purchases is call Paypal and talk to them to as if their are any issues with this buyer or red flags on the address or account. They cant "tell" you but they can say be cautious or not. At least they have before and helped me decline a sale.

But if this was a verified confirmed address then you should be covered as a seller. The value is so high though that Im sure it wouldnt be easy to fight.

Atomnimity · #9 03-22-2019, 08:08 AM

Im a little confused. You had a buyer in China and they gave you the address to ship. If you did what buyer told you to do and buyer didn't get the instrument - how is that your fault? You had the funds and paypal took the funds away and returned to buyer after you complied with buyers instructions?

Jim

cap217 · #10 03-22-2019, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomnimity

Im a little confused. You had a buyer in China and they gave you the address to ship. If you did what buyer told you to do and buyer didn't get the instrument - how is that your fault? You had the funds and paypal took the funds away and returned to buyer after you complied with buyers instructions?

Jim

Many reasons.

- Buyer could be scamming him
- Address is a fake address
- Seller didnt ship to a verified address

Its like the craigslist scams of I am in China but ship it to New York. Then the wire is fake or paypal is fake and the address was never a real address. They just know a package can be delivered there and stolen with no recourse.

What I am confused about is that the address shows up as a scam address online if you search. Now I search addresses and look it up on google earth to be sure as another step on large purchases but delivery companies should know this too and UPS or Fedex should flag these addresses.

OP-

The address is strange. Did you give a suite number? Its just a large warehouse and I see other scams attached to it, all from china. But I also see a Soyee Cheung that is complaining about not receiving a product. Maybe this is a legit freight forwarder for some? That was suite 100.

Then this place is a business for SF Express which might be a legit company. Here is an employee review:
SF-Express is now under new management from china, and has decreased in quality of work environment and job security as they are replacing most positions with Chinese natives.

I think the address and business is legit but there are a few bad employees that scam with their Chinese relatives. That guitar may end up for sale somewhere. Good luck. Id maybe have someone I know go there and ask some questions. Has to be someone in the area.

DenverSteve · #11 03-22-2019, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomnimity

Im a little confused. You had a buyer in China and they gave you the address to ship. If you did what buyer told you to do and buyer didn't get the instrument - how is that your fault? You had the funds and paypal took the funds away and returned to buyer after you complied with buyers instructions? Jim

A buyer always has a confirmed address through PayPal, Reverb.... If you wait until the money clears your account, ship to the exact address provided you through PayPal, Reverb.... use delivery verification...you will be fine. The issue is when you agree with the buyer to ship to their office, home or any different address than that provided by the service, then it's on you. The same reason you never use friends and family payments through PayPal to save the other person fees. The policies and rules are clear and final. Any deviation and you assume all risk. I recently sold an expensive guitar and PayPal (for no reason they could explain other than "it happens rarely") held the payment - in my account - "pending review". The money showed as received and it even showed the PayPal fees removed but I couldn't transfer it to my bank for 2 1/2 days. Reverb said not to ship until the payment fully cleared. I advised the buyer the entire time and even sent him screen shots of the PayPal "pending review" and Reverb "do not ship until funds clear" pages. He was fine and I didn't ship until all parties said everything was fine.

fazool · #12 03-22-2019, 08:25 AM

Paypal used to be safe. In fact, Paypal was established as part of eBay and then spun off as a seperate entity. IIRC they were forced to do so by regulators.

But Paypal was a very safe way to send payments online.

I think "payment received" status is a failure on Paypal's part and this is becoming an all-too-common story.

Frankly, I am becoming more and more hesitant to use Paypal.

Beakybird · #13 03-22-2019, 08:29 AM

So sorry. It's edifying to read about these experiences. Trying to learn what not to do so that this doesn't happen to me.
I hope the OP gets it back. Also hoping he's wealthy and can recover easily from the loss.

s4rest · #14 03-22-2019, 08:34 AM

Paypal couldn't tell me if it was verified or not. Sadly it looks like I'm out of luck.

cap217 · #15 03-22-2019, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s4rest

Paypal couldn't tell me if it was verified or not. Sadly it looks like I'm out of luck.

Im offering a ton of info in this thread but I have dealt with this since Paypal opened. My info and advice...

- If you shipped to a non verified address then it looks like you are screwed.
- I would send someone that lives close and is willing to go to this business and ask for the person you shipped to. Its a $4k guitar so there is a chance its worth it.
- Did you use UPS, Fedex, USPS?
- Did you have insurance?
- Did you pack it yourself or have a third party do it?
- Did you insure it? For how much?
- Did you get delivery confirmation? Signature confirmation? Direct signature confirmation?
- Did you sell it through reverb or ebay or direct? How did the seller get a hold of you?
- Where was the info about the shipping address? Did you communicate via email, text, ebay, etc?
- Did you update reverb or ebay with shipping info? Did you update paypal with shipping info?

All of these things matter for the next step.