Does customer has the right to change mind?

jhchang · #1 08-04-2004, 12:39 PM

I know many of you had great experience with Wildwood in CO. So I was about to order a Taylor from them and exchanged some emails with them regarding my questions. They are polite and courteous to me. Before I was ready to put down my order I'd like to see if there is room to negotiate a better deal. Logically if you can do a better price it's great; even if you can't then just say so. However I got an email from them complaining about my integrity and no longer interest in my deal. Geez! I don't think I need a lesson of integrity. Would I be wrong seeking a better deal?

pukematrix · #2 08-04-2004, 12:52 PM

My opinion, this is a free-market society - unless you've already contractually agreed to a deal, you have every right to try and negotiate a better one. Why we tend to shy away from negotiating is beyond me. A buddy of mine just got back from a trip to Egypt where everything, and I mean everything is negotiable. Don't like the price of a fountain drink? Talk the guy down. Like you said, the worse they can say is no.

Austin

Serenity · #3 08-04-2004, 01:05 PM

I think that timing can be a factor in a situation like this. I mean if you have agreed in principle to one deal it's a little annoying for the dealer if you come back and try to renegotiate again just before you sign the papers.

If a dealer tried to do that to us then we'd be angry...I mean I've had car dealers do that to me before and I hated it.

So, negotiate your best deal but don't say "I'll take it" until you actually mean it.

It's hard to tell, not haveing seen what you wrote back and forth. If all you did up to that point was ask questions and haggle and never agreed to buy then what you did was fine, but if at some point you and the dealer agreed on a deal but you then tried to re-open negotiations after that then I can understand the dealer not wanting to waste time with somebody who isn't haggling in good faith.

For example, if I say to a dealer. "I'll give you $1000 cash right now for that guitar." and he says "Ok, you've got a deal" and then I say, "Well how about $900 instead" then I wouldn't blame the guy if he tells me to go fly a kite.

If I'm a dealer, there is a difference between someone who wants to haggle and somebody who is just shopping my price.

Heliman · #4 08-04-2004, 01:09 PM

The cold hard truth is that information is not free. The dealer/salesman (company X) gives up lots of opportunities when they spend time answering you questions and haggling with you regarding price. It also costs time and money for their training, phone lines, etc., etc. Hence, they effectively need to factor in that cost into their selling price.

Now you call company Y and ask for their rock bottom price on product z stating you are ready to place your order. Naturally, company Y can afford to sell it to you cheaper. That's really a no-brainer!

Company X does the work and company Y takes home the bacon. It is not unlike your boss sending me your paycheck at the end of the week!

Just my humble opinion, which is subject to change, without notice,

Heliman

jastevens · #5 08-04-2004, 01:16 PM

That's the real question. Did you agree to buy at a certain price and THEN ask about negotiating? Or was your negotiation question presented before then? That make all the difference in the world.

The bottom line is, if you said "I'll take it" (or anything to that effect) before you asked to negotiate then any sales person would be well within their rights (and responsibilities) to dismiss you from the deal.

pukematrix · #6 08-04-2004, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliman

Just my humble opinion, which is subject to change, without notice

Classic.

Austin

meridian · #7 08-04-2004, 01:30 PM

Sounds kind of odd. Maybe you just got the guy on a bad day? It happens!

I would think a dealer would go out of his/her way to keep a sale or simply say no to a price they don't want to do, but what they said to you strikes me as extremely odd.

brownrd · #8 08-04-2004, 02:04 PM

I'm with Abdiel on this. Seems to me that once you agree on a price, then it is a matter of integrity to stick with it. JMHO.

Bob

Stixx · #9 08-04-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhchang

I know many of you had great experience with Wildwood in CO. So I was about to order a Taylor from them and exchanged some emails with them regarding my questions. They are polite and courteous to me. Before I was ready to put down my order I'd like to see if there is room to negotiate a better deal. Logically if you can do a better price it's great; even if you can't then just say so. However I got an email from them complaining about my integrity and no longer interest in my deal. Geez! I don't think I need a lesson of integrity. Would I be wrong seeking a better deal?

Since I do not know you and how you come off in a negotiated purchase I can not be too candid here but suffice it to say the use of one reputable dealer against another to finally get the absolute best deal is not the way gentlemen do business at this level of retail. I once put two friends together one had a need for speakers the other sold them . My retailer gave my friend the absolute bottom dollar price he could make a very small profit on and my other friend went over and tried to negotiate it further, Result was the dealer told my other friend to , well insert profanity here, and they both wanted me to mediate. I told them both to ,insert small profanity here, and chose to let them stew in it for a while then go back later after they cooled off and tell them both to grow up,

Fact is the business has become cut throat and the small dealers are the losers in this kind of sales . IF you want to buy musical instruments recongize it will be a long life time venture and making friends is the way to win in the long run , not alienating dealers who are operating on far less margins than any other retail business I know of

If you said you'd buy the gutiar buy the thing and quit whining, If the guy just went off on you for no good reason then dont shop there any more , There is lots of dealers who want the business. Only you know if you are the one at fault here , You may have just wore him out. LOL Good luck on the next try.

jhchang · #10 08-04-2004, 03:20 PM

There is an old saying, "customer is always right". If you are doing sales, you should not be cocky at *ANY* circumstance, even if your customer is MEAN. You should still show smile even if he slapped on your face. Customer should be always kept happy no matter what.
OK I'm not trying to be mean here. Although I can undestand the reason of his complain, if he could keep the anger to himself and gracefully reject my offer, I may still be happy to deal with him. At first I didn't negotiate any, and later I think I'm stupid for not doing so; so I'd just like to see if there is room. I wouldn't be surprise if he just says no; and I'd be satisfied if he explain the deal he made to me. Yes I'm comaring price here and not whining. Doesn't that happen all the time and everywhere, like when you shop for cars or something?
Anyway, I got nothing to lose; they lose my business.....

jmintzer · #11 08-04-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhchang

There is an old saying, "customer is always right".

Except when they're wrong...

I have a friend who is my main guitar 'pusher'. He gives me the same deal he does for everyone else XX% off. Very fair prices. I would never try to beat him up for a couple of dollars more. The trust I have in him and the information that he's spent hours giving me is worth more than the few bucks I could save playing hardball all over town/internet. He let's me know when something special comes in and he's gotten me some great guitars at 'very' competitive prices!

He's told me stories of a few customers who he actually refuses to do business with. They are such pains in the ***! These people try to play one dealer off the other, eventually p*ssing off multiple dealers in the process.

Now, I'm not saying that's what you did, but it's worth considering...

James

Stixx · #12 08-04-2004, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhchang

There is an old saying, "customer is always right". If you are doing sales, you should not be cocky at *ANY* circumstance, even if your customer is MEAN. You should still show smile even if he slapped on your face. Customer should be always kept happy no matter what.
OK I'm not trying to be mean here. Although I can undestand the reason of his complain, if he could keep the anger to himself and gracefully reject my offer, I may still be happy to deal with him. At first I didn't negotiate any, and later I think I'm stupid for not doing so; so I'd just like to see if there is room. I wouldn't be surprise if he just says no; and I'd be satisfied if he explain the deal he made to me. Yes I'm comaring price here and not whining. Doesn't that happen all the time and everywhere, like when you shop for cars or something?

I wonder when you asked your opening question , if you really want an honest answer, because i am getting a feeling from what you say that maybe
you were part of the problem not part of the solution. IF you want my honest answer , I might give it but I don't think you would like it and we all want to be nice here so Im going to shut up for now. LOL

taygull · #13 08-04-2004, 03:50 PM

I've been involved on one occasion where I thought we agreed on a price for a guitar and then a fellow forum member listed it at a higher price, after we agreed on a number.

His explanation was he got some "advice" after we agreed on a number and was told he could do better. I'm still PO'd at the member and doubt I will ever have the same respect for him others seem to have.

If both parties have discussed a sale, agreed on a number, then to me it is a deal. The only exception would be if it is learned the "retail" dealer is later found out to be "out of market" on his price. I would say 10% or less is not "out of market". I would then ask the dealer/seller to think about his number and tell him I learned his price is not "market".

Here is what I have learned, I no longer "commit" to a deal until I am ready to "buy". As well I also get numbers in writing from dealers.

jhchang · #14 08-04-2004, 03:54 PM

Yes I did change my mind and he's p**s'ed. If you all agree it's my fault then I have nothing to say. Just wonder if anyone has ever regret for a deal and would like to change it later. I know when you go buy a house, you have the right to back off your offer (with deposit lost of course, but I'm not there yet).

Stixx · #15 08-04-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhchang

Yes I did change my mind and he's p**s'ed. If you all agree it's my fault then I have nothing to say. Just wonder if anyone has ever regret for a deal and would like to change it later. I know when you go buy a house, you have the right to back off your offer (with deposit lost of course, but I'm not there yet).

You use the addage, "a customers always right" here's another for you .

" A deals a deal"