Long term durability/sound of Seagull cedar-topped guitars

[CO_west]

Sorry if this has been covered a dozen times. I did search before posting this!

I'm wondering about the long-term durability of Seagull cedar-topped guitars. I would like to get an S6, which is available with either a cedar or spruce top. I know that cedar is softer and more prone to scratches and dents than spruce. I'm not really concerned about cosmetics, though. All other things being equal, will a cedar-topped guitar have a shorter playable lifespan than a spruce-topped one?

I've also heard in different places that spruce will sound better with time, while cedar, which sounds great at first, can degrade in sound quality over time. There seems to be disagreement on this, though. What are your thoughts? I'd be especially interested in what people who have had a Seagull for 15+ years have to say.

I've had a Takamine G-series guitar for about 15 years that I'm awfully fond of, but I would like a wider neck for fingerstyle. The Takamine has been played almost daily and is still looking good. I would love for my next guitar to hold up similarly well. Since my Takamine is spruce, I've been leaning towards the cedar Seagull, but I want to address all my concerns before actually buying one.

Thanks!

[Wade Hampton]

CO, other than their tendency to get scratched up faster than spruce, the cedar tops used by Godin for Seagull, Simon & Patrick and Norman guitars are perfectly durable. I've got one cedar-topped Seagull that's close to twenty years old, with no problems.


whm

[Dwight]

Mine seemed to be doing just fine until it was run over by a ups truck.
Cedar holds up just fine if you’re a careful player. If I was getting another I would get cedar again. In my opinion it would have better tone. That said I wouldn’t by another and was not sad to see it go.

[Tony Done]

I've read those stories about cedar tops wearing out after a few years, specifically flamenco guitars, but real evidence is elusive. I have a cedar-topped Maton 225 that is about 20 years old and obviously had a very hard life before I bought it. It still sounds like a good cedar-topped dread to me, admittedly not my favourite sound for fingerpicking. I personally wouldn't worry about the life expectancy of cedar, especially if you are are fingerpicker who doesn't beat his guitar to death.

[rickwaugh]

Flamenco guitars are designed to wear out - not intentionally of course, but they are built super flimsy, to get a very bright, loud sound out of them. Very thin tops, very lightly braced.

I have seen some well and truly mangled cedar tops. I don't think I'd get one that didn't have a hard finish on it. But I have a 9 year old Stonebridge with a cedar top, and it's sure sounding fine still. Cedar tops are popular with finger style players, not entirely sure if there is a reason for the tendency there, or people are just following along.

[Earl49]

I have an M6 (mahogany body and cedar top) which actually pre-dates the S6. I bought it well-used from a college kid at least 20 years ago, and do not even know exactly how old it is. This guitar is still going strong. Because of its price and that it would be easy to replace, it has been my airline / travel guitar. Seagull has made a number of trips to Hawaii and all around Alaska without incident, in a thermoplastic Martin case. Although it is a cheaper guitar, the quality and sound is fine, and if pressed I would be OK if it were my only guitar (except for it being a dreadnought). I would be heartbroken if it ever got destroyed by the airlines. But I'd rather be out $400 for a Seagull than $3000 for one of my favorite Taylor's.

I also owned an S12 laminated cherry / cedar top twelve string (bought new) for probably ten years, and a friend in Alaska still owns it. I loved cedar for the twelve string because the cedar top mellowed some of the "jangliness" out of the classic twelve string tone.

Somewhere along the way, lore has become accepted as fact that cedar tops will "wear out" or will not open up. Yes, cedar is a softer wood and will be more prone to dings and scrapes. Cedar sounds warmer and mellower to start with, but most wood will age and open up with play time.... and actual time time.

I say get what you want, choosing for the tone first and foremost. I too love the wider 1.8" neck width for fingerstyle. Watch out because they now also make Slim neck versions which are 1.72". Measure twice, buy once.

[mr. beaumont]

I have a cedar topped La Patrie that has spent the better part of 10 years in a high school classroom. And it definitely looks like it.

But it's still in perfect shape structurally and sound wise. I think they do a pretty good job with that cedar up in Quebec.

(Although, as an aside, I also have a 22 year old spruce topped s6, and that baby is just great. Don't think you can go wrong with the s6 of either top)

[Mooh]

I keep a cedar top Norman (a Seagull relative) for student use in the lesson studio. (I had another that I sold in a moment of weakness to a student who loved it.) Takes a beating and keeps on ticking. There are a lot of cedar Seagulls around, some quite old, and they sound real good even if they're a little beat up.

[Steadfastly]

It has been said that spruce tops will slow a bullet a fraction more than the equivalent cedar top but if you are going to use it for something other than that, I wouldn't worry about.

[DenverSteve]

First - welcome to the forum. I've never seen any degradation of any S6 guitar over the past 20 years. You will be fine with whatever top you choose.

[Paraclete]

My S6+folk is almost 20 years old. It sits on a stand in my room and has seen a fair amount of pretty hard strumming. At one point I removed the pick guard that I had applied years ago, and it damaged the top a bit. It’s scratched from kids playing around it. It’s scuffed from when I used to play with a pick. Satin finish cedar is a little prone to damage. But it keeps improving with age...deep, rich, mellow. No signs of sound degradation. Great little guitar for the price.

[DukeX]

I have two cedar tops: 1996 Webber OM and 1996 Larrivee L-30. 22 years later, and both still sound, play, and look great.

Seagulls are high quality guitars.

[JMFingerstyle]

Cedar is soft, and will get dinged up and worn, particularly if it doesn't have a hard gloss finish. Below is a photo of the sound hole of my Seagull Entourage Mini Jumbo. The worn spot isn't from using a pick, it's simply where my little finger rests when I'm playing, and it's gradually worn away about 25% of the thickness of the wood in that area.

The guitar itself is structurally fine...there's no sign of any kind of bulge at the bridge, so I wouldn't worry about structural integrity, as other verified above by other long-term cedar top owners. Just expect your top to attain a little "character" as time goes by.

[fazool]

I have a cedar toppped dread that is 36 years old and it is fine.

[jeanray1113]

Cedar is definitely a softer wood. I have a Seagull rustic entourage, which has not had heavy use, and it definitely does have some scratches. I also have two Taylor cedar topped guitars, both with a hard finish and pickguards, and they look much better despite more play. Cedar does have a very warm, mellow quality. Of course, wood choice is only one factor that determines tone. I have a 512 12 fret and a 512 14 fret, and while they both have the warmth of cedar, the placement of the bridge on the 12 fret gives it a very different quality. I haven't heard about the tone of cedar degrading, rather that it's tone does not change has much over time as some woods do. As far as flamenco guitars, not only are they built very lightly, they are played hard. It is not a forgiving style for either the guitar or the player. If you want a cedar guitar because you like its tonal qualities, I wouldn't let concerns about wear get in the way.