Bashkin vs Kinnairds /Why are Kinnairds priced lower than others ?

[Plethora]

Why their starting price is $5200! YES $5200 for a luthier built seems to good to be true even bourgeois DB signature is 95 dollars more . Any catch to it ?

And Bashkin vs Kinnaird ? Both seem to be voiced modern . Bashkin is a couple more thousand more than a Kinnaird

[crikey]

Catch? Whudaya mean?

Maybe give them a call?

[Plethora]

Originally Posted by crikey

Catch? Whudaya mean?

Maybe give them a call?

Very rare for a luthier built to be this cheap . Usually 6-7k+++

[printer2]

Depends on how much overhead each has, how many instruments they make, how much people are willing to pay for their instruments...

Tinker/Halcyon guitars are a steal in the luthier made category. Not sure how they do it. Starting around $1k, elves?

[crikey]

Originally Posted by Plethora

Very rare for a luthier built to be this cheap . Usually 6-7k+++

"Very rare?" As a blanket statement, I believe this to be mis-informed at best, especially since you were referencing 'starting price' in your OP. How many luthier/luthier builds have you looked into?

[The Bard Rocks]

I have a Kinnaird and it is a very fine guitar. Johns was really wonderful to work with, no one could be better. I am sure Bashkins are fine as well.

BUT, keep in mind no luthier makes more than just a few guitars in a year. So, pricing is always difficult. If you were selling thousands each, you'd know much more accurately how much the market will bear. With 10-15 a year, pricing becomes more of a guessing game.

The major factor a maker needs to consider is his or her reputation because that, ultimately, determines the demand since supply can't be altered much. Cost of materials is only a tiny fraction of the price; it's the labor that dds the great value. Consider: Goodalls sold for a certain amount when they were made in Hawaii in a shop utiiizing the labor of several men. When they moved back to California and eliminated the non-family work force, as expected, the price went up. They'd established a stellar reputation and suddenly the supply went down and maybe the demand went up some.

In Kinnaird's case, they have been building their reputation and becoming wider known. They participate here, which gets their name out to more customers. They attend some of the large guitar shows, which allows more people to see and to play their creations. They have elaborate and up to date websites. Time has elapsed since they started, so the word has slowly spread. They now each have hundreds of guitars under their belts and that experience has been paying off as their guitars have been able to increase in price faster than inflation has.

But there are many luthiers who are priced lower (and higher). Take the case of John Greven. He has been in the business even longer, has an enviable reputation one that few can match, yet his guitars start $1000 less. And he is booked so far into the future that he recognizes that he will need to retire by the time he has reached the last guitar he has committed to. Some of that demand is no doubt fueled by his lower price.

Consider a maker just starting out: if they are going to compete they need to either have even lower prices or be fortunate to have something special going for them, such as an association with one of the elite makers such as Somagyi, or have won wide-spread recognition for one of their creations. Getting your instruments into the hand of certain elite shops is another way to gain recognition.

Pricing is not a simple matter, nor is it clear-cut. If you find no one is buying your instruments, then you are over-priced. But that takes a long while to discover. If you start to get booked too far into the future, then you may decide that you need to raise your price to keep supply and demand in step. Being booked into the future has value as you can count on an income stream.

[psychojohn]

Originally Posted by printer2

Depends on how much overhead each has, how many instruments they make, how much people are willing to pay for their instruments...

Tinker/Halcyon guitars are a steal in the luthier made category. Not sure how they do it. Starting around $1k, elves?

Being a big Ed Bond fan (Own one Halcyon, Awaiting delivery on my Tinker), I think he keeps his overhead low (as do most one or two man luthier businesses), focuses on wood as bling rather than Abalone, keeps his builds solid, strong, yet light, but most importantly is simply dedicated to producing an exceptional value in a custom built guitar. Like he has a service mission to make excellent sounding guitars for the masses. As a result he may make/take a less profit than some higher priced builders. I've seen other builders say they too can produce less costly versions of their guitars, but have seen only one other person doing it besides Ed. I forget than persons name as it was raised in a thread about economical builds/builders some time ago and my memory sucks.

To the question at hand, luthier's price their product at what they believe the market will bear for their product irrespective of similar style, training and background. Welcome to a capitalistic society.

John

[pandaroo]

Luthier built at $5200 too good to be true? I think is wrong to assume they should be $6-$7k. My Benavides cost me $3800 with super flamed koa and figured redwood. You just have to shop around.

[s2y]

If you think Kinnaird is cheap, look at Kronbauer.

[WHguitarNYC]

$5,200 for a Kinnaird is their minimum pricing. Once you start adding in options, the prices start to rise quickly. If you want a cutaway, that's an additional $500. Want woods other than the standard offering? That'll run you a nice upcharge as well. Rosette, purfling, inlays, tuners...it's very easy to quickly get into the $6-$7k price range...

[jaymarsch]

There are lots of different reasons why each luthier has their price point where it is. I would highly recommend asking them directly if you want the most accurate answer.

Best,
Jayne

[Plethora]

Originally Posted by crikey

"Very rare?" As a blanket statement, I believe this to be mis-informed at best, especially since you were referencing 'starting price' in your OP. How many luthier/luthier builds have you looked into?

I do apologize for that . But from the luthiers I've been looking at they're prices the lowest I know some have even lowered prices but I'm not there yet . Give me a few more months , it's been like half a year since I've been heavily into guitar and I've been checking everything out since then .

[Plethora]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

I have a Kinnaird and it is a very fine guitar. Johns was really wonderful to work with, no one could be better. I am sure Bashkins are fine as well.

BUT, keep in mind no luthier makes more than just a few guitars in a year. So, pricing is always difficult. If you were selling thousands each, you'd know much more accurately how much the market will bear. With 10-15 a year, pricing becomes more of a guessing game.

The major factor a maker needs to consider is his or her reputation because that, ultimately, determines the demand since supply can't be altered much. Cost of materials is only a tiny fraction of the price; it's the labor that dds the great value. Consider: Goodalls sold for a certain amount when they were made in Hawaii in a shop utiiizing the labor of several men. When they moved back to California and eliminated the non-family work force, as expected, the price went up. They'd established a stellar reputation and suddenly the supply went down and maybe the demand went up some.

In Kinnaird's case, they have been building their reputation and becoming wider known. They participate here, which gets their name out to more customers. They attend some of the large guitar shows, which allows more people to see and to play their creations. They have elaborate and up to date websites. Time has elapsed since they started, so the word has slowly spread. They now each have hundreds of guitars under their belts and that experience has been paying off as their guitars have been able to increase in price faster than inflation has.

But there are many luthiers who are priced lower (and higher). Take the case of John Greven. He has been in the business even longer, has an enviable reputation one that few can match, yet his guitars start $1000 less. And he is booked so far into the future that he recognizes that he will need to retire by the time he has reached the last guitar he has committed to. Some of that demand is no doubt fueled by his lower price.

Consider a maker just starting out: if they are going to compete they need to either have even lower prices or be fortunate to have something special going for them, such as an association with one of the elite makers such as Somagyi, or have won wide-spread recognition for one of their creations. Getting your instruments into the hand of certain elite shops is another way to gain recognition.

Pricing is not a simple matter, nor is it clear-cut. If you find no one is buying your instruments, then you are over-priced. But that takes a long while to discover. If you start to get booked too far into the future, then you may decide that you need to raise your price to keep supply and demand in step. Being booked into the future has value as you can count on an income stream.

You sir just cleared up the water for me . A used goodall can be truly a 'steal' at the price point. Kinnaird doesn't show up at the classifieds too often so I probably have to buy a new one to if I were to get it . Bashkin is now currently not taking any orders . Is it true that if a luthier is closed and when it reopens the based price will go up as well ?

[andrewbenw]

Originally Posted by Plethora

You sir just cleared up the water for me . A used goodall can be truly a 'steal' at the price point. Kinnaird doesn't show up at the classifieds too often so I probably have to buy a new one to if I were to get it . Bashkin is now currently not taking any orders . Is it true that if a luthier is closed and when it reopens the based price will go up as well ?

Sometimes? If you're looking for hard and fast rules on pricing - there aren't any.

[Chedeng88]

The secret is starting to get out. Kinnairds are currently one of the underrated boutique guitars out there IMHO. With their current pricing, you're getting a LOT of guitar for the money.

I just reluctantly sold a deep body OM last week due to necessity and I'm still undergoing seller's remorse. I'm happy to report though that the new owner is very pleased with his latest acquisition.

I hope Steve/Ryan and John don't stumble upon this thread as they might be tempted to increase their prices.