12 fret vs. 14 fret– Pros, cons?

[Purfle Haze]

I notice that some guitar models are offered with both 12 and 14 frets to the body. I can see that a 14-fret instrument allows one to play higher on the neck. But some must prefer 12-fretters or they wouldn't be marketed. What are the pro and cons of these two options?

When I bought my first guitar I had no idea that the number of frets could differ from one guitar to another.

[MC5C]

Each model or version will be different. Historically when guitars went from 12 fret to 14 fret the location of the bridge on the belly of the guitar moved up, changing the bracing and the manner in which the bridge drove the top. Often the location of the sound hole moved up as well. There is an obvious different look to the guitar, and they feel different when you play them - a 12 fret guitar feels more compact. But these are generalizations.

If a maker of a 12 fret guitar places the bridge more into the center of the belly, adjusts the bracing accordingly, and so on - you might get a different tone that appeals to you. A more vintage look, sound and feel. A neat compromise might be a 12 fret guitar with a cutaway top.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by MC5C

Each model or version will be different. Historically when guitars went from 12 fret to 14 fret the location of the bridge on the belly of the guitar moved up, changing the bracing and the manner in which the bridge drove the top. Often the location of the sound hole moved up as well. There is an obvious different look to the guitar, and they feel different when you play them - a 12 fret guitar feels more compact. But these are generalizations.

If a maker of a 12 fret guitar places the bridge more into the center of the belly, adjusts the bracing accordingly, and so on - you might get a different tone that appeals to you. A more vintage look, sound and feel. A neat compromise might be a 12 fret guitar with a cutaway top.

That's not a universal answer. Martin and Taylor, for example, modify their guitars in opposite ways. Martin keeps the bridge and sound hole the same but extends the body cavity, while Taylor keeps the same body cavity and moves the neck and bridge back.

There are two basic approaches to making a 12 vs. 14 fret guitar. Use a shorter neck and move the bridge, or use a shorter neck and lengthen the body.

Most modern makers use the first approach. Some makers also make the 12 fret version in a shorter scale than the 14 fret version. The bridge and bracing both usually move to accomodate the change.

Martin uses a combination. Their 12 fret bodies are longer, but not by enough make up the difference between the 12th and 14th fret, so the bridge moves some too. However, Martin did it in reverse. Their 12 fret guitars are the original design and the "Orchestra Model" guitars were redesigned to accomodate a 14 fret neck. That is "Orchestra Model" in the larger sense, rather than just the OM model. Martin used that term in catalogues at least through the 1950's.

A few other Martin quirks worth noting. Some 12 fret Dreadnaughts used a 19 fret board and some a 20 fret board. That changes the location of the sound hole, but not the bracing. All traditional 12 fret 000's are long scale. All traditional 12 fret Martins are forward braced. Early 12 fret Martins had wider necks and bridge spacing than the 14 fret guitars that followed.

So, if you're comparing a 12 fret 000 to it's 14 fret counterpart, there are more differences than just the neck - body size, bracing position, nut and bridge spacing, and scale length. The two guitars end up being vastly different.

[OddManOut]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

There are two basic approaches to making a 12 vs. 14 fret guitar. Use a shorter neck and move the bridge, or use a shorter neck and lengthen the body.

Most modern makers use the first approach. Some makers also make the 12 fret version in a shorter scale than the 14 fret version. The bridge and bracing both usually move to accomodate the change.

Martin uses a combination. Their 12 fret bodies are longer, but not by enough make up the difference between the 12th and 14th fret, so the bridge moves some too. However, Martin did it in reverse. Their 12 fret guitars are the original design and the "Orchestra Model" guitars were redesigned to accomodate a 14 fret neck. That is "Orchestra Model" in the larger sense, rather than just the OM model. Martin used that term in catalogues at least through the 1950's.

A few other Martin quirks worth noting. Some 12 fret Dreadnaughts used a 19 fret board and some a 20 fret board. That changes the location of the sound hole, but not the bracing. All traditional 12 fret 000's are long scale. All traditional 12 fret Martins are forward braced. Early 12 fret Martins had wider necks and bridge spacing than the 14 fret guitars that followed.

So, if you're comparing a 12 fret 000 to it's 14 fret counterpart, there are more differences than just the neck - body size, bracing position, nut and bridge spacing, and scale length. The two guitars end up being vastly different.

+1 on the above, but I want to clarify scale length. Shortening the neck does not require a short scale. A 12-fret MAY have a short scale, but a 14-fret may as well. I just don't want you to have the impression that 12 fret = short scale. Not at all.

The common wisdom is moving the soundhole, bridge, and braces south gives a warmer tone, a bit less snap to the notes. I agree with this. As one dealer wrote about 12-frets vs. 14-frets, a 12-fretter has "a little less bark, a little more snuggle". Very apt. Also, a 12-fret design with a longer body will tend to give a bit more bass than a comparable 14-fret.

Personally , I love 12-fretters. A 000-12 is my fave. I don't miss the upper frets. I love the tone, the ergonomics, and the look. YMMV.

[jpmist]

These are excellent answers, so I'm only gonna add that ever since I got my Larrivee OO 12 fret, 14 fretters sound thin and airy which is kind of a drag. I can't imagine buying a 14 fret guitar ever, which means an artificial constraint to my GAS pains since they're so hard to find.

I didn't notice anyone mentioning running out of frets playing higher up, so finding one with a cutaway is crucial if you play up the neck with a capo.

And one last kick in the shins to Taylor, who've done quite a lot to popularize the 12 fret, but I've bought and then sold 3 of them cause they were boring. I'm mystified why I couldn't bond with any of them despite being a Taylor owner for 30 years.

If you can find a Martin or Larrivee 12 fret to try out, that'll be the sound of a 12 fret. All my humble opinion, of course.

[Athlai]

Adding my less technical opinion...

For me, there's a definite difference in the feel & tone of my 12-fret guitar compared to others I've had.

Mine's from Taylor and even though it's a concert size, having the bridge moved back on the lower bout has really given it a warmth and bassy feel. Also, I feel it's a bit friendlier to the hand. I'm able to create barre chords without any issues whereas on standard 14-fret guitars I struggle, even if the action is just as nice.

So you can count me as a huge fan of 12-frets, at least this particular model I own from Taylor (322ce).

[jpmist]

Originally Posted by Athlai

. . . Also, I feel it's a bit friendlier to the hand. I'm able to create barre chords without any issues whereas on standard 14-fret guitars I struggle, even if the action is just as nice.

So you can count me as a huge fan of 12-frets, at least this particular model I own from Taylor (322ce).

I'm guessing that friendly feeling is due to the shorter scale of the 12 Fret, an aspect I really liked on the ones I had and wish my Larrivee's had.

And no disrespect intended to all you Taylor 12 fret guys, they're really nice guitars, one of the 12 frets I had was a beautiful mahogany top, they're just not for me.

[OddManOut]

Originally Posted by jpmist

I'm guessing that friendly feeling is due to the shorter scale of the 12 Fret, an aspect I really liked on the ones I had and wish my Larrivee's had.

And no disrespect intended to all you Taylor 12 fret guys, they're really nice guitars, one of the 12 frets I had was a beautiful mahogany top, they're just not for me.

Once again, 12 frets have shorter necks, but not necessarily shorter scale. e.g. All of my 12-frets are Martin long scale.

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by jpmist

I'm guessing that friendly feeling is due to the shorter scale of the 12 Fret, an aspect I really liked on the ones I had and wish my Larrivee's had.

And no disrespect intended to all you Taylor 12 fret guys, they're really nice guitars, one of the 12 frets I had was a beautiful mahogany top, they're just not for me.

None taken =) We're a house divided over here. My husband doesn't prefer the Taylor sound and has an ear for Martin's. I'm vice-versa - that being said the 12-fret definitely can warm up the tone on the smaller body, I was shocked when he said he actually liked the sound of my Taylor. Could have knocked me over with a feather.

[Earl49]

I do play up the neck, as far as 15th and 17th fret with some regularity, so I find a 12-fret version limiting, especially without a cutaway. I am firmly bonded with 14-fret guitars, and it takes a few minutes to recalibrate my brain when picking up a twelve-frets-to-the-body guitar. (We only own one - an Ovation resonator prototype, which mostly gets hung as wall sculpture, and rarely gets played. Part of that is the 12-fret neck and part is the bowl shape that is not compatible with my belly).

But I understand the advantages of a 12-fret - giving warmer more "open" or mature tone, better compactness of feel and playing comfort, etc. I have no issue with those that prefer 12-frets - they are just not for me. (The guitars, not the people who prefer them).

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Earl49

But I understand the advantages of a 12-fret - giving warmer more "open" or mature tone, better compactness of feel and playing comfort, etc.

+1

A short-scale 12 fret with elongated body is often a rich-sounding guitar for its size, and a pleasure to play. One advantage is the short reach on the fretboard from top to bottom -- it feels like it's all right there -- great for arranging, improvising, with less focus on where your left hand is. Not a huge deal, but it feels like a more intimate experience.

I own a nice one that has as much punch as a 14-fret standard scale, so if that's important to you, it's not something you have to sacrifice.

I also figure that if players like Eric Skye can get by with "only" 12 frets and have plenty to say, so can I.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Purfle Haze

I notice that some guitar models are offered with both 12 and 14 frets to the body. I can see that a 14-fret instrument allows one to play higher on the neck. But some must prefer 12-fretters or they wouldn't be marketed. What are the pro and cons of these two options?

When I bought my first guitar I had no idea that the number of frets could differ from one guitar to another.

Hi PH

I don't see it as 12 versus 14, just two options (and there are 13 fret guitars as well) which position the bridge in the lower bout slightly differently.

I've played and liked both, and have owned one 12 fret. It wasn't compelling enough to not sell to my gigging partner who wanted it (because it had a 1⅞" nut).

[min7b5]

Well, I have a pretty well established bias on this one Soundwise, all other things being equal (which they never are) I believe 12-fret guitars are the superior design for sure. They just have more of everything, especially projection. I've definitely played some wonderful 14-fretters, but they're fewer and further between. I actually like most 12-fret guitars I try. Even very inexpensive models have more happening to me then comparatively much more expensive 14-fret guitars. I think things like 14 fret design, solid pegheads, cutaways, etc, are all fine, but largely conceived as conveniences to the player. I doubt very much anyone was sitting around thinking, "this is going to make the guitar sound a lot better..."

[NigelT]

Originally Posted by Earl49

I do play up the neck, as far as 15th and 17th fret with some regularity, so I find a 12-fret version limiting, especially without a cutaway. I am firmly bonded with 14-fret guitars, and it takes a few minutes to recalibrate my brain when picking up a twelve-frets-to-the-body guitar. (We only own one - an Ovation resonator prototype, which mostly gets hung as wall sculpture, and rarely gets played. Part of that is the 12-fret neck and part is the bowl shape that is not compatible with my belly).

But I understand the advantages of a 12-fret - giving warmer more "open" or mature tone, better compactness of feel and playing comfort, etc. I have no issue with those that prefer 12-frets - they are just not for me. (The guitars, not the people who prefer them).

+1 Just too limiting. My friend, a very good player has a Martin 12 fret. I asked him if the lack of fret access was a problem. He just started bumping his hand on the body at the neck, so the answer was yes.