Why so many problems on a brand new guitar?

Gibson is one of those manufacturers that many love to hate and those of us who love their guitars for their sound, under our breaths, might even agree with a lot of the points being made about them. Case in point:

I recently bought two Gibsons. For the kind of money we're talking about, there shouldn't be stupid problems. But there are, or at least were because I spent several hours fixing them tonight.

My Songwriter Deluxe had two low nut slots: the high E and the G. I had to fill in both slots with bone dust hardened with super glue and then re-file them down to the proper depth. I was getting low volume, muted tone and slight buzzing out of those strings even when not fretted. The guitar sounded off so I started investigating. I bought feeler gauges today and sure enough, couldn't even get the slimmest one under either string at the first fret when the second fret was fretted.

I noticed that after I fixed that problem, I could take some of the relief out of the neck. In fact I made it almost flat without any buzzing, which consequently got me lower string height and easier playing and better sounding guitar all around. The difference was pretty significant on those two strings when I was finished.

My beef is, how does Gibson screw this up on a new guitar? They're the builders, don't they know how deep to make the slots on the nut? It's not just the Songwriter, my J-45 has the opposite problem: most of the nut slots aren't deep enough. I'll fix that tomorrow. The low E string is particularly bad and sits pretty high off the 1st fret when the 2nd is fretted. I got suspicious because cowboy chords seemed more difficult than they should have and I started noticing how much distance the string had to go down on each chord formation up close to the nut. So again I wonder how does Gibson not get this right? I can understand high action out of the factory because Gibson can't know how high each person will want it so that's understandable, but not getting the nuts cut right just plain pisses me off.

[44Runner]

I understand your frustration and I would be feeling that same thing. Getting the nut right does seem rather elementary.

In the end, you have to always strive for quality as a company and I simply don't think Gibson does. I know my company has a quality meeting every week. I just went to it yesterday. Basically we go over every customer complaint from the week in detail and then talk about what we are going to do to make this customer happy. Sure, we operate in a tough market and if we don't keep our customers happy we could very well lose them, but it's more than that. Our company mission statement says we will take care of these people so we have to figure out ways to modify our products to make it the best and lowest cost product for every single customer. We are a Fortune 500 company and this kind of attention to detail is what it takes to get and stay there. You can never lose site of the fact that the customer is the most important part of a business, and I sometimes feel that Gibson simply thinks their name alone will continue to sell their guitars.

[SpiderTrap]

In my past 4 decades or so of purchasing 60+guitars . For me anyway , it was ALWAYS the more expensive the guitar, the more problems . Could it be planned obsolescence / I don't know what it is , but going thru a set of frets in 3 months on a new HD28 was the final straw . Im back to FG730S's and have had Zero problems, a few tweeks and they sound just as good or better than more expensive Name brand guitars. Gibsons, and I've had 5 were famous for tremendous string tension .. was always something...

Originally Posted by 44Runner

In the end, you have to always strive for quality as a company and I simply don't think Gibson does. I know my company has a quality meeting every week. I just went to it yesterday.

Precisely and I wonder if Gibson's management does anything like this. I know that quality control and quality concerns all start from the very top. If the top management doesn't care, those further down the food-chain certainly aren't going to.

What makes me extra annoyed is that I really love Gibson guitars and I'd like to defend them to those who speak ill of the brand. That's hard to do when your own guitars have problems that others are pining about. I'm lucky that I have the resources to fix these things myself, not everyone does and will have to plunk down extra money after buying a Gibson to get it setup right. It isn't just this particular batch either, I bought a SWD Standard a couple years ago which also had problems with the nut. There seems to be quite a trend of that type of problem.

You don't hear people who own Taylors or Martins finding as many goofy things wrong on new guitars from those companies. Therefore, I know it's possible to 'get it right' the first time.

Originally Posted by SpiderTrap999

In my past 4 decades or so of purchasing 60+guitars . For me anyway , it was ALWAYS the more expensive the guitar, the more problems . Could it be planned obsolescence / I don't know what it is , but going thru a set of frets in 3 months on a new HD28 was the final straw . Im back to FG730S's and have had Zero problems, a few tweeks and they sound just as good or better than more expensive Name brand guitars. Gibsons, and I've had 5 were famous for tremendous string tension .. was always something...

One thing is for sure, if Yamaha can get it right on a $400 guitar, then Gibson has no excuse for not getting it right on one that costs 5-6 times that amount. My first guitar was a Yamaha BTW. I'm not as fond of them now, but that's just personal preference, they do seem to be made well though. Now Washburn on the other hand, I had a couple of those years back—total junk. Maybe I should have bought that Guild I saw at GC, there was nothing wrong with that. I keep getting sucked in by Gibsons though.

I never had a single problem with any Martin I owned, maybe your HD28 issue was a fluke?

Actually I just remembered, I did have one Gibson that was without issue. It was a J-45 TV. I shoulda held onto that one.

[cooper59]

lol another Gibson rant. this board is full of people who probably never played a Gibson and more than like likely play a 200 guitar.

[Silly Moustache]

There are TWO Gibson acoustic dealers near me. Every guitar I sampled in both shops were high price items but all had set up issues and the presentation was of the standard of '60s Harmony guitars.

When I was in "Business Support" it was said that when a manufacturing business got over 140 people the original ethos changed and the original bosses - usually engineers or craftsmen had to become directors rather than makers.

I believe that there comes a time when the shop floor craftspersons are replaced by "assemblers" and machine operators rather than skilled luthiers.

I was given a Gibson made Dobro - Model 27 Deluxe. Sounded horrible. I rang the local resonator guy who said "the intonation will be out" Why? - "there is an error on their production line and they have been wrong for years".
He showed me that the cutout for the resonator was 1/4" wrongly located.
Fortunately Beard Respohonics make a compensating spider to correct it.
Nevertheless the cone seating had to be re-routed and the awful cone replaced AND he compensating spider.

Gibson must have known about the problem - seemingly didn't care. From their latest website it seems they've stopped making them altogether and killed the "Dobro" brand.

I had a friend who ran a specialty dealership including Gibsons. I asked him about getting an L-1 for me. He advised against it - He said "I can get you one - and it "might" be OK - but they are too variable for me to trust them".

An acquaintance of mine bought a new J-35. He's on his fourth or fifth now - the shop just keep changing them over hoping to find one that can be properly tuned. Intonation and set up again.

Frankly if I hear of someone wanting a good Gibson, I suggest an Eastman or Blueridge.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by cooper59

lol another Gibson rant. this board is full of people who probably never played a Gibson and more than like likely play a 200 guitar.

Actually it'll be people like me who have owned multiple Gibsons with issues. Case in point; an SJ200 which arrived with an off-centre back strip and crooked binding. Another case in point; an ebony ES135 which arrived with an off-centre bridge, missing tuner screws, off-centre 'ES135' decal, weather checking and a body full of wood chips. Both were 'new'.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by cooper59

lol another Gibson rant. this board is full of people who probably never played a Gibson and more than like likely play a 200 guitar.

I don't understand why you would write that.
Why would anyone who has no experience of Gibson have any opinion?

However, I WILL say this - I am currently playing with a young lady who has a J150. Apart from some very poor fretwork -it seems OK.

I have a '34 Archtop which is OK (since it was refretted) - but it is not as good as my Eastman.

Please tell us of your Gibson experiences.

[Silly Moustache]

This :

http://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/E...-RVW963029.htm

[sublro]

Originally Posted by cooper59

lol another Gibson rant. this board is full of people who probably never played a Gibson and more than like likely play a 200 guitar.

Ok, this post is about as irrelevant to this conversation as it gets...

It's not a rant, and it's a discussion between people who have owned multiple gibsons and are raising really legit questions from the perspective of people who WANT to buy them and love them EVEN THOUGH they cost way more...

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

This :

http://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/E...-RVW963029.htm

With staff morale at such an apparently low ebb it's a wonder that any Gibson guitar reaches us in a flawless condition, frankly. Piss your employees off? Don't expect them to do their best. This is a double tragedy; for the workers and for us who, quite rightly, expect the best from an iconic American guitar but often don't get it.

[billder99]

Originally Posted by Dominus Mortem

Gibson is one of those manufacturers that many love to hate and those of us who love their guitars for their sound, under our breaths, might even agree with a lot of the points being made about them. Case in point...... I wonder how does Gibson not get this right? I can understand high action out of the factory because Gibson can't know how high each person will want it so that's understandable, but not getting the nuts cut right just plain pisses me off.

I hope you send this letter to Gibson, but rewrite it to be polite and professional... no antagonism. The people at the top NEED to know when they have guitars leaving the plant that are not perfect. Trust me, they WANT to do the right thing... their QC/QA programs just suck. I will bet you get a thank-you note, and maybe a little gift (strings or some such).

PS: It's really great that you have invested the time into developing the skill to understand what the problems were and to correct them yourself. Good job!

[zombywoof]

No matter how much we would like to chalk it up to sloppy mass production and poor QC, I think guitars always had these problems. The difference is us. We are simply more savy and perhaps more demanding.

[edman]

Why would you perform any repair work on a new guitar?