Tru oil

[rusty999]

Anyone using tru oil as a finish on their acoustics ? I have an Indian rosewood back and sides acoustic almost finished so decided to use a tru oil finish--birchwood casey tru oil-- and I'm having a problem. I used Bolgers Sanding sealer after a careful sanding with all the different grits and then applied the tru oil and allowed it to soak in before removing the excess with a spatula.

I allowed 8 hours drying time and decided to rub down again with sandpaper to apply another coat, but it just came off in a gooey mess and does not appear to have cured properly. I'm wondering if its because i did not allow enough drying time or has the oil gone off as its about a year old or maybe more
Any advise appreciated
Rusty

[joeguam]

I used Z-poxy to pore fill and 8 coats of truoil in this build:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=340567

I reference the Mya-Moe YouTube series called "Birth of a Mya-Moe" and I apply truoil exactly like Gordon Mayer shows in the video. I always waited a minimum of 6 hours between coats. Here's a link:

[rusty999]

Originally Posted by joeguam

I used Z-poxy to pore fill and 8 coats of truoil in this build:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=340567

I reference the Mya-Moe YouTube series called "Birth of a Mya-Moe" and I apply truoil exactly like Gordon Mayer shows in the video. I always waited a minimum of 6 hours between coats. Here's a link:
http://youtu.be/APKDrCXW6QU

Very Impressive and thanks for reply. From watching your video I have come to the conclusion that I loaded on too much oil at the beginning and should have been wiping it off a lot quicker. Its going to be a pain to sand it all down again--should I be using wet n dry sandpaper or regular.? I did try with regular but its loading up the paper with gooey lumps almost immediately and I was putting that down to it not being dry enough. Probably should be using a different sandpaper ?
Thanks again for your help
Rusty

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by rusty999

Probably should be using a different sandpaper ?
Thanks again for your help

Use a cabinet scraper.

[Ned Milburn]

I have never worked with tru oil before, but it sounds to me like you applied it much too thick.

Roger Knox put a mini-tutorial of his method in the thread here:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=352867

It is easy to understand that if his finish is going on in up to 20 or more layers, he is applying it very thin. I think this is the key to any god finish - sprayed, brushed, or rubbed - specifically, thin layers many times.

Charles is right. The scraper will be a much better friend to you in removing your gooey mess than will sandpaper.

[arie]

i've used in on gun stocks -for which it was made, and ime you need a lot of thin coats. the first 3 to 5 five coats are pretty much non-existent until you start to body up.

a cabinet scraper is fine, but rookies push too hard and remove wood. use caution.

[alohachris]

Aloha Rusty,

I made two guitars using a Tru-Oil finish many years ago (early 80's) looking for a healthier, lacquer finishing alternative.

I agree with all the above advice. My conclusions are:

- Always use fresh finishing products - especially oils.

- Seal the porous woods with superglue (or epoxy or whatever you like to use) - it minimizes oil absorption in tonewoods. Sand smooth. BTW, I got into using CA glue as a pore filler/ sealer on small guitar repairs & finish touch ups long ago. I liked it so much I kept on with it, refining my techniques. Basically, I squeegy the CA on & am able to work it into the pores very quickly & fairly evenly, w/o the muddy mess of silica-based fillers or waiting for epoxies. 1-2 coats. I've had a lot of success filling by using high quality CA glues (like Titebond Medium viscosity) since around 1975 when CA glues's first appeared. Don Teeter got me into it. Store them in the frig for much longer shelf life.

- Wipe On & Wipe Off Fast the Tru-Oil - In Seconds! You DO NOT WANT THE OIL TO SATURATE THE WOOD. IT KILLS ALL TONE! Wipe On/ Take Off Fast & Dry - Like zip/zip! Do small sections of the guitar surfaces not a whole back at a time. If you put it on thin (mixed 20% w/ mineral spirits) & quickly, scraping becomes less of an issue. Yes, use cabinet scrapers for that task.

- Wait a minimum of 8-12 hours of drying time between coats. Oil dries very slowly depending on where you are or the season.

- Build coats slowly - 5-10 coats of Tru-Oil max for porous B&S surfaces, IME. The number of coats depends on the % of mineral spirits you cut the Tru-Oil with. Thinner = more coats.

- Apply Only 2-4 Tru-Oil coats on the top & really wipe on & off VERY fast - no saturation must be allowed to occur on the softer topwoods - this is NOT a gunstock.

- Apply 8-12 coats of Tru-Oil on necks - if you're committed to Tru-Oil. Duraseal does a much better job, IMO.

Advantages:

- No health issues
- Easy & inexpensive application
- Easy & Quick to repair

Disadvantages:

- Not a durable enough finish for nightly giggers or regular daily players. The tops & sides will discolor (especially on spruce) under your armpit pretty quickly requiring touch up. Arm hair can actually stick to the top on a muggy day (same w/ French polishing here in Hawaii).

This was the deal breaker for me & the two players I made the guitars for. Both had me apply lacquer to the guitar bodies subsequently. Both left the oil on the neck for the feel. I've used Duraseal neutral oil sealer (a tougher oil than Tru-Oil) for many guitar necks with MUCH better success.

- Oil drying time in year-round 65% mean humidity Hawaii is VERY extended. There are only 1-2 types/brands of any kind of oil that work well out here. But it's not Tru-Oil, not Watco & definitely not Tung oil.

- Too many coats of oil finish visually dulls & darkens the figure, & grain & color of many hardwoods & is especially brutal on the look of Hawaiian koa - a preferred B&S wood for me. Lacquer is much better for that reason.

- Tonally, a hard lacquer surface finish raises the pitch & provides tonal characteristics I prefer to Tru-oil finishes, which provide softer/mellower qualities. Lacquer offers much more protection too & it travels far better than Tru-Oil finishes.

Nitrocellulose Lacquer has given me what I've needed for finishing the 220 guitars I've made in the Islands to date. Nothing else works as well for a guy who sprays his own finishes. Guitars w/ catalyzed lacquers do not travel well from Hawaii (cold-crazing). Water-based finishes are not there yet, IMO. BTW, Tru-Oil finishes in general, but especially w/o sealing are too minimal for gigging professionals, IMO.

Just my two cents, Rusty. Of course, I'm no Tru-Oil expert by any means having only used it on a coupla guitars many years ago. As I've mentioned, I have put Duraseal Neutral oil sealer on many, many acoustic & electric necks & players seem to love that natural wood feel. Again, Duraseal is just that - much more durable than Tru-Oil, IMO. Just trying to help.

Good Luck!

alohachris

[joeguam]

Wow chris, I've never heard of anyone pore filling with CA glue. Maybe just spot filling, but pore filling doesn't seem reasonable as your work time is very short.

I use z-poxy, which is a two-part resin with a long work time to work it down into the pores. Whatever is used, make sure it's not thin viscosity.

[alohachris]

Aloha Joe,

Yes, Z-poxy IS definitely a great pore-filler & much more economical than CA glues for filing guitar woods on larger instruments like a whole guitar. Others such as silex-based "mud" pore fillers w/ colors are even more commonly used for filing porous guitar woods. However, I prefer to use high quality CA glue exclusively for ALL my sealing & filling applications now for reasons mentioned above in an earlier post. I've developed a CA glue application technique that works well. It's much faster & dries harder than other fillers, And, it is invisible under lacquer (or oil) finishes.

And sealing with CA also worked for the Tru-Oil finishes on those two aforementioned guitars, I filled the pores w/ medium viscosity Titebond CA glue. It saved time & worked well. If you squeegy the CA on -1-2 coats, it won't take too long or be too uneven, a skill that takes some time for consistent results. As I said, I've been doing it since 1975 when CA glue first came out - @ Don Teeter's suggestion. Of course, all CA glues are also not of the same quality. Titebond's the best, IMO.

At least, that's my thought process, experience & rationale, Joe.

All the best, Joe.

alohachris

[LouieAtienza]

I pore-filled one guitar with CA. You WANT to do this outside. I've used hardware store epoxy, thinned with MEK and that works fine as well.

I never finished a guitar with Tru-Oil (though I've done a few guitar necks with it.) Thin coats allow for better (and faster) drying. I used to refinish pool cues with tung oil and polish it to a very high gloss, though this is on a lathe.

[Tom West]

rusty999: I have used z-poxy as a pore filler and finished with polymerized tung oil which I think is similar to Tru-oil, this has resulted with problems developing especially on necks. Check this out on the Offical Luthiers Forum. Lots of reports of problems. Regular silica fill is not a problem. Also z-poxy is an excellent filler under nitro. Hope you get it worked out.
Tom

[runamuck]

Does anyone have experience with Minwax Wipe On Poly Oil versus Tru Oil for guitars?

I've never used Tru Oil but have used Wipe On Poly a lot on furniture. It builds quickly and is basically a thinned down varnish formulated for wiping, I believe. When it's warm I can get 3 coats on a day.

It sure seems to me, from what I read here, that Wipe On Poly would get the job done faster but maybe there's drawbacks I'm unaware of when it comes to guitars.

[joeguam]

I used minwax wipe on poly with this refinishing job:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=317264

...and I used truoil in the build thread I linked to in my earlier post. I found success in both, and both were pore filled with a z-poxy base. Considering both experiences, I'll use TruOil over minwax poly every time moving forward. The minwax wipe on poly is not very forgiving at all. Once you wipe it on, if you have streaks (which is inevitable), you don't really have much time to fix it. The truoil is so easy to apply, and goes on real easily.

If you build up around 20-30 THIN coats, you can buff it to a really nice high gloss.

I read somewhere that truoil is actually a diluted varnish and not an oil at all. It cures hard like a varnish and doesn't stay soft like tung or linseed oil.

[murrmac123]

Just in case anybody is tempted to do some finishing with Tru-Oil after reading this thread, it is vital to remember that if you use rags or cloths to apply the oil, you need to let them dry fully opened , never crumpled up.

A rag soaked with a polymerising oil is a ticking timebomb if left crumpled up tightly, and will inevitably start to smoulder. Many a workshop fire has been started as a result of oil soaked rags not being disposed of properly.

[joeguam]

Great advice murrmac, this is an absolute must.