The dreaded F chord and others..how long?

[gr8tnezz]

I am about four months in to my guitar journey. I am bumping into the F chord and the rest of the barr chords. It's frustrating, but I was ready for that. I'm trying to build the hand strength necessary to consistently play these chords. I have a short first finger and it's all I can do to get it all the way across the neck. To complicate matters, the G string falls right into the groove of my knuckle and deadens if I don't pay attention every time. I am trying to use more of the side of my first finger to barr and not the fat juicy bottom. I feel like if I can get these barr chords down, it will open up a lot of new songs to play so I am really focusing on it. Right now I am just concentrating on the first finger and getting to the point where I can barr up and down the neck useing only that finger. I can tell I am making progress. I hope to start adding chord shapes soon. I was just curious,

How long did it take you guys/gals to feel like you had this technique down?

I am sticking to learning this on acoustic. I know electric would be easier but I prefer acoustic. I figure if I can do it on an acoustic, it will be easier to apply it to an electric.

[Bikewer]

First thing... Have you had your instrument set up? There is nothing like having the action at the nut too high to kill your beginning efforts at these first-position barre chords.
Many guitars come from the factory with the action deliberately set rather high, as the manufacturers know guitarists all have different ideas of what they like, and it's much easier to lower than it is to raise.

After that, it's a matter of experimentation. I found many years ago that it just "clicked" one day. Try picking each string separately to see where problems lie, and make very minor position changes.

Also... Bear in mind that full barres are seldom really necessary....

[skitoolong]

Originally Posted by gr8tnezz

......
How long did it take you guys/gals to feel like you had this technique down?


I am sticking to learning this on acoustic. I know electric would be easier but I prefer acoustic. I figure if I can do it on an acoustic, it will be easier to apply it to an electric.

It took me a good 6 months of work to get the technique and muscle memory to fairly consistently play this shape in tempo. I'm still not 100% but I can hit it most of the time anywhere I need to.

[BobbyBadd]

I play the F chord with a wrap over thumb, wasn't too long to master.
But, it took 6 months to get the B minor bar chord. Of course, playing finger style
I had to do riffs off of the basic chord with my pinky. But, day after day, minimum 5 maybe 10 mins a day, it finally took. I have, as I said I would, mastered it.
Good luck, it will happen!

[Ed-in-Ohio]

FYI and consideration: I usually play F major as a non-barre chord: XX3211 or X03211 using my index finger to fret both the B & E strings at the first fret.

This shapes makes going to and from open C major ("You Can't Always Get What You Want", for example) quick and painless.

My guitars all have nut widths below 1 3/4" which helps considerably with this shape.

For barre chording, there is no substitute for practice and establishing muscle memory. (Though a good set-up, lighter gauge strings, and a 12" or lower [more arched] fretboard radius also helps...a lot!).

Good luck!

[Pualee]

It took me probably 6 months.

What did it in the end, was just never playing the 4 string chord, but always playing the barre... even thought I could barely get it, and it was too slow, and sounded bad. Forcing myself to use it allowed me to 'fail' and learn from mistakes so that it became normal to use this chord by default.

Now I use both the F barre and also the 4 string F (or even the 5 string F/C) depending on the song and what I want to do. You just have to go for it, the same as you went after the open chords when you couldn't play at all.

One thing that helps considerably is focusing on where you need pressure. Your index only has to fret strings 1, 2, 6. So put pressure on those strings, and don't worry about the parts where your other fingers fret. Let your index relax over the other strings (almost making an arc). You will have to relearn (just a bit) where to apply pressure when you start using the 7ths, minors, etc. but this will help you get the F major down - and give you confidence to continue. Learn to place your knuckles appropriately for extra pressure on the strings where it is required. I actually adjust my index depending on where on the neck I make the chord (F barre is different C barre in positioning, because the neck is wider and my knuckles fall differently).

[Earwitness]

I learned to play mainly when I was younger, and never could get some barre chords to sound cleanly, especially compared to open chords.

Now, for about 18 months I have busted my tail playing guitar--an overwhelming amount of practice. Guess what? I still cannot play some barre chords to compare to fretted chords. I'm not sure my hand can even do some of them, at least fully and cleanly!

Hardest ones:
"E shape" (like an F) getting the 6th string to sound decent, especially on the lowest frets
"Am shape" (such as Bm) getting the 5th string to be clean
"A shape" notes are ok, but definitely muted compared to open or fretted
"Em shape" for some reason, no problem

So, unfortunately, my experience is that a light has never clicked on for barre chords, at least not a bright light. I can do sequences of barre chords that sound okay, but not as good going back and forth from fretted to barred.

What has worked for me, with practice, is to add numerous three- and four- finger fretted chords up the neck. Cleanly plucked fretted chords up the neck can sound so sweet! So I kind of work around the need for barre chords, I hate to say....

So, I hope it just clicks for you, but if not, there are work-arounds.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by gr8tnezz

…How long did it take you guys/gals to feel like you had this technique down?

Hi gr8tness...

Learned the basic barre and added the E and A shapes in about a month. Mastered? It was a non-thinking technique within the year that I discovered barre chords. It was useful and flexible within a year or two (and has been ever since).

Your short fingers are not of great concern to me (as a teacher). I have fairly short fingers, and could not wrap a chord (instead of playing the barre form) because my medium sized hands/thumb will not allow it. I've taught many small handed folks to play barres.

Here are three short videos on Barre chords which may help...(all 1 minute in length). This was for students and friends who struggle with barre chords...hope they help.

The way you describe your progress, I think you are on a good track with them.


Where is the Pressure? - CLiCK


Barre From Above and Behind - CLiCK


Barre from Front - CLiCK

Hope these help...

[Earwitness]

Here's a strange twist--I posted the above from work. Came home and took a shot at the barre chords. I actually can do everything I said I couldn't do. So, apparently sometime in the last few months my hand got a lot stronger.

I play a fingerstyle, and I just usually am not shooting for 6 notes at once anyway.

So, maybe your success is just around the corner!

[mizunodave]

Consider picking up a stress ball (walmart has them from golds gym, about the size of a baseball) or other hand strengthening device. Carry it around with you at school or work.

Also, where are you positioning your thumb? When I play those I'm positioned like I'm putting my thumb print down right in the center of the back of the neck. A lot of people play open chords with their thumb wrapped around top and don't transition far enough back for barre chords.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by gr8tnezz

I am about four months in to my guitar journey. I am bumping into the F chord and the rest of the barr chords. It's frustrating, but I was ready for that. I'm trying to build the hand strength necessary to consistently play these chords. I have a short first finger and it's all I can do to get it all the way across the neck. To complicate matters, the G string falls right into the groove of my knuckle and deadens if I don't pay attention every time. I am trying to use more of the side of my first finger to barr and not the fat juicy bottom. I feel like if I can get these barr chords down, it will open up a lot of new songs to play so I am really focusing on it. Right now I am just concentrating on the first finger and getting to the point where I can barr up and down the neck useing only that finger. I can tell I am making progress. I hope to start adding chord shapes soon. I was just curious,

How long did it take you guys/gals to feel like you had this technique down?

I am sticking to learning this on acoustic. I know electric would be easier but I prefer acoustic. I figure if I can do it on an acoustic, it will be easier to apply it to an electric.

I'd just echo the advice above to really make sure your guitar is properly set up, especially that the nut is not too high - that's a fairly common thing with new guitars.
If you have a capo, fit it on fret 1. If your guitar now feels noticeably easier to play, your nut is too high. The nut (ie the bottom of the slots that the strings sit in) should be no higher than a fret. It's a cheap job to fix it, and your guitar will become much more playable.

If the set up and action is fine, then it's just ("just"! haha!) a matter of getting the right finger angle and position, and practising.

Remember the strings being fretted by your other fingers don't need to be held as firmly by your index. Eg, when I play a full 6-string F barre chord, and remove fingers 2-3-4, strings 5-4-3 are often deadened by the index, not cleanly fretted - because they don't need to be. My index is fretting strings 6-2-1 cleanly, and the rest can go hang .
Naturally, I (or rather my hands) have learned that optimum economy of pressure over the years.
It seems like a crazy statement, but you can't consciously make your hands adopt the perfect position, finger by finger. Sure, you can put your fingers where you think they ought to go, and press them as much as you think you have to. But it's your muscles - through constant repetition - that learn the optimum distribution of pressure, in the same way you learn to balance through instinct: it's a complicated set of subconscious adjustments.

The tip I have for barre chords - which may or may not help, as my fingers may be a different size or shape to yours - is that I use the bony underside of the first finger joint (after the knuckle) to hold down strings 1-2 (the fleshy part of the finger is less efficient). The index needs to be almost dead straight for this, to maximise that hard bony area (and thumb on back of neck opposite of course). The fingertip then reaches comfortably to string 6 (my hands are average size, not long, maybe a little thinner than average). You don't need to hold down strings 3-4-5 cleanly, because (for the F chord) the other fingers do that. So just focus the index (however you want to hold it) on strings 1-2-6 - and keep it as close up against the fret as you can (the nearer to the fret, the less pressure is needed).
You may find the side of the index works better, but that tends to put your other fingers at a bad angle (and your arm too). There's a happy medium there somewhere. (It may be that you start with the index on its side, and then roll it over as you get used to the shape.)

Obviously other barre shapes require the index to hold strings 5 and 1 (with the option of 6) - the "A" and "Am" shapes; or - worst of all - strings 6-3-2-1 (for the "Em" shape"), or even strings 6-4-2-1, or 6-4-3-2-1 (for "E7" and "Em7" shapes) - the latter is particularly nasty, and I always try to find alternatives for that.
I.e., I can fret all 6 strings cleanly with my index if I want - but there's never any need to (except sometimes when I'm in open tuning ), and my hand has learned to relax on the strings it doesn't need.

This is a good video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzYfdYtoFf4
- he's quite right about the straightness of the index as the best way of getting all 6 strings fretted - and on a flat neck classical guitar. If you're playing a steel string, with a cambered neck, the dead straight index is less necessary, but it's still worth aiming for, because the common mistake is to curve the index too much.
He also (at 7:20) repeats my point about the middle strings in that "E" form barre - they don't need to be held down (only strings 6-2-1).
Still, aim for the ramrod-straight index as a beginning principle - and then you will find you can relax it after a while.

[JonPR]

BTW, this topic (as you might imagine) has come up before, and you might find interesting reading here:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=307381

[skitoolong]

Originally Posted by JonPR

....
Remember the strings being fretted by your other fingers don't need to be held as firmly by your index. Eg, when I play a full 6-string F barre chord, and remove fingers 2-3-4, strings 5-4-3 are often deadened by the index, not cleanly fretted - because they don't need to be. My index is fretting strings 6-2-1 cleanly, and the rest can go hang .

This is so true... and it can come back and bite you in the butt too. I'm still working out this barre chord thing and last night was my first time trying to play a Bm7 barre in a song. When I play the Bm I don't focus on the G string under the barre because the 4th finger covers it. When I lift the 4th off for the 7th... thud was all I heard on the G string.

So I learned I have to adjust how I lay down the bar if that 7th is in the progression because with how I did it before, it ends up in a crease.

So much to learn.....

[Bluepoet]

Just a few pointers...

First, it really isn't a matter of strength, at all, to play barre chords. It's a matter of placement and leverage. Use your entire arm, not just your hand...it will be much easier, and less tiring to move your elbow in to your body, and possibly angle the guitar neck up, than to just clamp down on the strings.

Second, try playing the chords up higher, on the neck, to start, and then try sliding them down to the first position.

Third, form the chord with the index finger first, then try it with the index finger last....after a time, you can then try it all together...do this slowly as you have to, in order to make a clean sounding chord. (lj's videos probably illustrate this, very well)

The amount of time it takes will vary, for everyone...can't answer that for ya...it will take what it takes. Remember, if your hand starts cramping, you're still using too much strength, and not enough leverage. Play something else, or stop, for a bit, until you can relax your muscles.

[OliverN3RD]

Originally Posted by gr8tnezz

I am about four months in to my guitar journey. I am bumping into the F chord and the rest of the barr chords. It's frustrating, but I was ready for that. I'm trying to build the hand strength necessary to consistently play these chords. I have a short first finger and it's all I can do to get it all the way across the neck. To complicate matters, the G string falls right into the groove of my knuckle and deadens if I don't pay attention every time. I am trying to use more of the side of my first finger to barr and not the fat juicy bottom. I feel like if I can get these barr chords down, it will open up a lot of new songs to play so I am really focusing on it. Right now I am just concentrating on the first finger and getting to the point where I can barr up and down the neck useing only that finger. I can tell I am making progress. I hope to start adding chord shapes soon. I was just curious,

How long did it take you guys/gals to feel like you had this technique down?

I am sticking to learning this on acoustic. I know electric would be easier but I prefer acoustic. I figure if I can do it on an acoustic, it will be easier to apply it to an electric.

Don`t worry mt friend. When i first started i had some trouble with F and B chords a lot. This took me about 3 weeks to get one chord down. Im only speaking for my self here but if you keep practice it and soon you will get it down in faster then you think.