2014 Taylor 814ce and 816ce, Martins, Gibson, and Yamaha

[martingitdave]

First off, I didn't buy anything, and don't intend to. This is for information and entertainment only.

I had a few hours this morning between meetings to go to a very nice guitar store. They have an excellent stock of high end instruments. I played around with all the new toys. I decided it might be fun to test a bunch of high end guitars by playing the same songs on each. An idea I stole from the "Acoustic Letter" marketing videos, which I think are entertaining. So, I picked 4 songs from my repertoire.

Leader of the Band (in G, awesome song)
Hobo's Lullaby (in G because I had no capo)
Homeward Bound (in G, again no capo, sense a theme)
Rocky Mountain High (Drop D tuning, bada bing bada boom)

I did not sing.

So here are my impressions of the following new stock 2014 guitars playing my folk folk/rock music finger style. You will note I prefer rosewood.

Yamaha LL6, LL16, LS16 - Everyone of these new 2014/AREs with passive pickups is a winner. Played all of them. Twice. I thought it would be easy to dismiss the L6, because of the laminate sides. Not the case. Still sounded terrific. If you have less than $800 to spend and you like the tone of a solid rosewood guitar, BUY ONE OF THESE. Do not bother comparing. Just buy it. ;-) LL body has more bass, LS body more mids. Both excellent.

Martin HD28V - I already know I love the tone of this one, since I owned one. Neck feels even fatter since I switched to low profile necks. But, this has the best classic Martin/Dread/Bluegrass tone. Period.

Martin HD28 - Almost as good in tone as the HD28V, but easier for me to play. I would buy one of these under different circumstances. Actually, I had intended to trade my 2010 HD28V for a 2013 HD28, until someone put an 2011 HD35 custom in my hands. The rest is (recent) history as they say.

Martin HD35 - No surprise that I loved this, as I own the custom shop version. The experience reinforced that this is an excellent guitar for my music! Love the way it goes with my voice. Ok, I admit I did a little singing when the room was clear. ;-) Still surprised that I can hear much difference between the HD28 and the HD35.

Martin GPCPA1 Plus - Oh boy! This is a wonderful guitar. Great tone. Excellent body shape. Electronics are superb. Martin got it right with this one. Beautiful to look at. But... I hate to admit, I liked the new 816ce Taylor just a wee bit better. This Martin sounds a little better strummed, but the Taylor was a little more lively and beefier finger style.

For those not able to play the new Taylor "re voiced" 800 series...

Taylor 812ce and 712ce - Very nice but not for me. Not enough low end. But, a great sounding guitar nonetheless. Like the smaller body and could see myself enjoying one on a couch. However, that would be a VERY expensive couch toy. ;-)

Taylor 814ce - Getting closer. I spent a good deal of time trying this guitar. It has very nice bottom end, and finger style playing sounded lovely. It was a toss up between this and the Martin GPCPA1 Plus. Though, the Martin had a better tone when strummed. I was surprised, but I thought the Taylor 814ce got a little "muddy" when played with gusto. In the end, I would probably take the Martin, if I were so inclined.

Taylor 816ce - Good thing I already spent all my guitar money for a long time. Woah Nelly! This is hard to describe. It's got a little of everything, but not too much of anything. Just nearly the perfect guitar. If only it weren't so expensive or a tad too big. Rosewood lovers: pick up this new 816ce, close your eyes so you can't see the lower bout, or read the price tag, and you'll be very close to Nirvana. In all fairness, it is comparably priced to the Martin guitars, with a tad more "bling."

[Update: I went back a 8 months later and bought this guitar after a brief flirtation with the 814ce Brazilian. I traded my Martin CS Dread for the guitar. I played this guitar for a year exclusively and wrote a number of songs with it and played many performances. I got compliments on the guitar everywhere I played. From the audience side it is well received. But, just as nearly EVERYONE warned me, I missed the dreadnought sound about a year later, and I, subsequently, purchased one. Now, I have two six string guitars to choose from, and I can't bring myself to sell the 816ce. I'll probably keep it for my next finger style musical phase.

[mikealpine]

I played an 816 at a road show and pretty much had the same reaction. All around, it is a terrific guitar.

[Inked]

Thanks for the reviews and using your lunchbreak well.

[piper_guitarist]

I love the Taylor GS body style myself. I played one not too long ago and it was virtually everything I look for in a guitar. I just can't play one due to the fact it requires medium strings and I can't handle them (hell, even lights are a struggle for me).

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Inked

Thanks for the reviews and using your lunchbreak well.

No problem. I aim to make it easy for my gear head brothers and sisters to become obsessed with acoustic guitars.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by piper_guitarist

I love the Taylor GS body style myself. I played one not too long ago and it was virtually everything I look for in a guitar. I just can't play one due to the fact it requires medium strings and I can't handle them (hell, even lights are a struggle for me).

Interesting point. The heavier strings are difficult. Not that you were looking for advice, but have you tried the Martin SP light/medium gauge? They were a godsend for me. I did not notice any issues with the strings on the GS. Wonder if it was the new HD light set? They felt good is all I can say.

[piper_guitarist]

I don't know what they're running. As it is, I run custom lights (11-52) on my OM-1, with 12 and 16 plain strings. That setup feels rather comfortable to me; regular lights even are a bit too stiff for me I find.

I've not played one of the brand new 816s so they might be running the HD Light on them. With a proper setup they might be super easy to play. I'd have to see.

[fd943]

I bought a first edition 918 last year because it was just so absolutely beautiful and would give you chills the way it sounded acousticly...when I plugged it in ( to any system) that all went away. It sounded like the way vinagar taste on your teeth. Really harsh, brittle and BAD! Nothing at all like the guitar.Called Taylor to see if something was wrong. Went through the check list with the tech on the phone..."you try this? Yes do this ? What about this? Yep. His reply: "oh well, might want to wait until next year when we come out with the newer updated ES What!!? Really?? That's it!!?? "We know there are some issues, and we are working to get them smooth out.... "but how does that help me now?" Dead silence on the other end. "Ok. thanks, you been a BiG help, and I feel WAY better about spending north of 3k on a guitar that is basically useless to me ( I use my guitars at least 98% of the time plugged in). Me? I would take the Martin, Gibson or even the Yamaha all day long over the Taylor, but that's just me

[jimidrake]

I'm a big fan of the Taylor Grand Symphony bodies. I have absolutely no problem with the ES electronics in mine and wonder what it's being played through by the previous poster. It did take some tweaking of my EQ on my amp, but that is to be expected when there is no stick transducer in the bridge and no "quack" to adjust for. I find it to be one of the more natural sounding pickup systems I've played. Maybe the fact that I used to do sound in studios and stage helps me zero in quickly on settings that will work. I also have a K&K Pure mini pickup system that requires a totally different profile, but I end up getting a similar result. Well, to each his own. It is possible that the unplugged and plugged in sound are very different on the Grand Orchestra models. I haven't played one due to lack of interest, so I can't really give an informed opinion. Believe it or not, I'm more fond of the sound of my 416ce LTD than that of the new 816 and I'm definitely not fond of the HD light gauge selection. Mediums are hard enough to bend in the lower frets of a 25.5 inch scaled instrument and I'm not sure the playability was really as much of a consideration than the tone and volume fidelity between strings when they were designing the set.

[Jasper64]

Originally Posted by fd943

I bought a first edition 918 last year because it was just so absolutely beautiful and would give you chills the way it sounded acousticly...when I plugged it in ( to any system) that all went away. It sounded like the way vinagar taste on your teeth. Really harsh, brittle and BAD! Nothing at all like the guitar.Called Taylor to see if something was wrong. Went through the check list with the tech on the phone..."you try this? Yes do this ? What about this? Yep. His reply: "oh well, might want to wait until next year when we come out with the newer updated ES What!!? Really?? That's it!!?? "We know there are some issues, and we are working to get them smooth out.... "but how does that help me now?" Dead silence on the other end. "Ok. thanks, you been a BiG help, and I feel WAY better about spending north of 3k on a guitar that is basically useless to me ( I use my guitars at least 98% of the time plugged in). Me? I would take the Martin, Gibson or even the Yamaha all day long over the Taylor, but that's just me

Wow. You had to go through all that just so you could bash Taylor.

Martingitdave I think that was a fair review on each model. I am a Taylor guy but I really really want either the HD 28 retro or vintage. I don't live close to a store that carries Martin. What is your opinion on those 2 or even the regular HD 28???

[jimidrake]

Originally Posted by fd943

I bought a first edition 918 last year because it was just so absolutely beautiful and would give you chills the way it sounded acousticly...when I plugged it in ( to any system) that all went away. It sounded like the way vinagar taste on your teeth. Really harsh, brittle and BAD! Nothing at all like the guitar.Called Taylor to see if something was wrong. Went through the check list with the tech on the phone..."you try this? Yes do this ? What about this? Yep. His reply: "oh well, might want to wait until next year when we come out with the newer updated ES What!!? Really?? That's it!!?? "We know there are some issues, and we are working to get them smooth out.... "but how does that help me now?" Dead silence on the other end. "Ok. thanks, you been a BiG help, and I feel WAY better about spending north of 3k on a guitar that is basically useless to me ( I use my guitars at least 98% of the time plugged in). Me? I would take the Martin, Gibson or even the Yamaha all day long over the Taylor, but that's just me

The one thing that kind of sticks in my craw about your post is that if you play plugged in 98% of the time, why didn't you play it through an amp or PA before you bought it? Something is just not right with this story. Also, the account of the Taylor tech is just not sitting with me as well. I have never heard of a tech from Taylor ever saying there were issues with a highly successful design(all of the employees of Taylor Guitars are incredibly proud of their product) and every account I have ever heard of, and with my own experience, they are extremely bend-over-backwards helpful. To add to my growing disbelief, if you buy a 900 series Taylor and are dissatisfied with it they would surely take it back with little trouble unless you caused damage to it. I am seriously doubting that a person who plays plugged in "98% of the time" would have waited more than a day after purchase to try it out in their preferred configuration and no Taylor dealer would refuse a return within 48 hours and remain an authorized dealer. I'm smelling fish.

[fd943]

Ok...let's try this again...I'm not bashing Taylor ( nor I'm I trolling) I had a Taylor 815c that it bought new in 2008 and carried to four states playing the fire out of it for close to 5 yrs. Just about wore they frets off of it. Best guitar I have ever owned, but sold it and a few others to raise money to upgrade my PA. in a time when I was short on cash. That ES was great, and worked well under a lot of conditions. Just to clear this up, I said I liked the 918,but the ES sucked. If you'll do a search, you'll see I'm not the only one who feels that way. I bought the guitar used from an individual on CL, so I didn't get a chance to try it out plugged in, and really didn't feel the need to. As far as the Taylor tech., he wasn't rude at all, told me to take it back to the dealer, I said I bought it used, and that was not an option. He did say the we're working out some bumps in the ES system. If they think it's perfect, why the need to continue to upgrade? Hey guys, not trying to cause problems here, and if you don't agree with me, or even believe me for that matter,that's cool, no problem, let's all be nice, but a least let me have a say so. I would love to have the 816ce but not gonna happen for me with the ES.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Jasper64

Wow. You had to go through all that just so you could bash Taylor.

Martingitdave I think that was a fair review on each model. I am a Taylor guy but I really really want either the HD 28 retro or vintage. I don't live close to a store that carries Martin. What is your opinion on those 2 or even the regular HD 28???

Thank you.

The HD28 Retro is a very different animal in that in includes some sophisticated electronics and modern player profile neck. It's a very cool guitar for a working musician. The HD28V (Vingate) is a fabulous sounding dread. It does, however, have a modified V neck, which does not suit me, as it is too large for my hands. The HD28 is pretty hard to beat for the price. It has a modern neck with no electronics. Some people prefer the D28 without the scalloped bracing. It is pruely a matter of taste. My experience with Martin is thus:

1. Decide is sophisticated electronics with modeling is important or not.
2. If yes, then start with one of their Fishman Aura equiped models.
3. If no, then I would keep an open mind and play as many of the standard series as you can find. My experience is that one or more will speak to you, if it is meant to be.

If you can't play them in advance, then you are probably better off buying from a shop with experts who can lead you in the right direction.

[jimidrake]

fd943, I'm not flaming you, but you have to see the way your reply came across. Buyers remorse over an instrument purchased without playing in the configuration you play 98% of the time seems a little counterintuitive. Your 815, if it had the expression system and was a 2008 model, had the same ES system as the First Edition 918e you're ridiculing, so if there was a difference is performance it should go to a Taylor Tech at a dealer to evaluate if there is something wrong and, if possible, play it next to another of the same year. It's kind of silly to condemn the new 816ce over the pickup system which is ES2 and markedly different than the ES system in the instrument you have played. Taylor designed the ES2 system 2 years ago and just finished production of the first run after the model year of the 1st Ed. X18 launch. This makes the tech saying there are bugs being worked out a little puzzling, seeing as he would be likely to have this knowledge. These are pretty much why your post wasn't adding up after thinking about it, at least in my assimilation of what you wrote. I've heard many people voicing displeasure with Taylor's ES electronics, but most of it came with the early 2AA system and a lot you can chalk up to personal preference and subjectivity. I also see some Taylor devotees complaining about the new system, but that can be about change and equally as subjective. No offense, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just found some of the logic behind it incohesive and reactively abrupt. Peace

[ecguitar44]

Originally Posted by fd943

I bought a first edition 918 last year because it was just so absolutely beautiful and would give you chills the way it sounded acousticly...when I plugged it in ( to any system) that all went away. It sounded like the way vinagar taste on your teeth. Really harsh, brittle and BAD! Nothing at all like the guitar.Called Taylor to see if something was wrong. Went through the check list with the tech on the phone..."you try this? Yes do this ? What about this? Yep. His reply: "oh well, might want to wait until next year when we come out with the newer updated ES What!!? Really?? That's it!!?? "We know there are some issues, and we are working to get them smooth out.... "but how does that help me now?" Dead silence on the other end. "Ok. thanks, you been a BiG help, and I feel WAY better about spending north of 3k on a guitar that is basically useless to me ( I use my guitars at least 98% of the time plugged in). Me? I would take the Martin, Gibson or even the Yamaha all day long over the Taylor, but that's just me

Sounds like poor customer service. But I'd recommend taking to a local tech to look at.

I've never been a fan of Taylor's in-house electronics. I'm dubious about this new generation too. It seems overly complex and possibly prone to issues down the road.

At the end of the day, I think people's expectations of how pickups should sound is unrealistic. They all pretty much sound awful. Just which one sounds less awful to YOU?