Do I really need an impedance matching transformer?

[Chedeng88]

I have been using just a regular 1/4" jack on my Taylor with ES and Fishman Loudbox Mini. But I'm now thinking of using their XLR cable.

The Fishman Loudbox has an XLR input but it's only on the mic side. Can I plug the XLR cable there?
Or do I have to buy something like an Audix T-50K impedance matching transformer and use that to plug on the 1/4" input jack?

Also, will I be better off with a Mogami or some other XLR cable brand rather than the Taylor branded one? I'm just concerned because I saw a couple of thread where people weren't so happy with the Taylor cable.

[jseth]

You should be fine running the XLR into the "mic" side of your Fishman amp... if it has a gain setting, set it with the ES on full volume, then lower that volume and the amplifier's volume, bring the amp volume up real slow and you'll hear whether it sounds okay or not... if it doesn't, well, there's your clue!

All the Taylor cables I own ARE Mogami cable, put together by Taylor... were you confusing reviews of all Taylor's cables with reviews of that one with the volume control on it? The "V" cable?

By the way, if you are happy with the way your Taylor sounds with a 1/4" plug, the EASIEST thing to do is... NOTHING!

"If it ain't broke..."

[Cochese]

The impedance matching transformer isn't a good idea as the impedance is not an issue. Those transformers typically boost the signal so you can connect a low Z mic with a mixers high Z input. The issue is more about the gain level as you can always plug a Low Z signal into a high Z input but not the other way around.

The ES systems are low Z output regardless of whether you use a TS or TRS cable. Unfortunately if the ES system works like my T5 does you will lose about 6dB of output running a TS unbalanced cable.

Does the ES system produce "hiss" when the volume is maxed like my T5 does?

As the previous poster suggested if you like the sound using the TS plug into the instrument channel you are probably fine. I would tend to disagree with the idea of turning the ES system up full with the mic channel on the Loudbox for a couple of reasons. You always want to properly gain stage things properly and maxing out a control on most devices will usually yield more noise. You need to find the optimim setting where the gains all match up with the lowest signal to noise ratio. Also the mic channel has a mic preamp which means more gain and the ES system will have more gain than a typical microphone. Using that channel may increase your noise floor and there is no midrange control on that channel.

[dangrunloh]

I plug my 414ce with ES system into a Loudbox Mini and have used both 1/4 and the XLR output from the guitar. To my ears ther XLR sounds more lifelike and less metallic or magnetic than the 1/4 unbalanced.

If going XLR directly to the PA channel you want the guitar volume low. The balanced (XLR) guitar output is actually line level (mixer level) not the lower microphone level. If guitar volume is high you can overload or over power PA channel when you you dig in. I play XLR with guitar volume about 10:00.

In the unbalanced 1/4 channel the guitar output is a little weak and I usually have guitar volume higher (12:00 or more). if you want to use that channel some say run XLR to impedance adapter then 1/4, will give a higher signal and a better sound.

I'm going to try it (XLR impedance adapter) when forced to use the 1/4 channel. Hope it sounds more like the XLR signal.

YOUR ANSWER: No you don't have to use the XLR cord and Impedance transformer when plugging into 1/4 unbalanced, a standard guitar cord works fine, but you might get a better sound with the XLR source.

[dangrunloh]

Originally Posted by dangrunloh

I plug my 414ce with ES system into a Loudbox Mini and have used both 1/4 and the XLR output from the guitar. To my ears ther XLR sounds more lifelike and less metallic or magnetic than the 1/4 unbalanced.

If going XLR directly to the PA channel you want the guitar volume low. The balanced (XLR) guitar output is actually line level (mixer level) not the lower microphone level. If guitar volume is high you can overload or over power PA channel when you you dig in. I play XLR with guitar volume about 10:00.

In the unbalanced 1/4 channel the guitar output is a little weak and I usually have guitar volume higher (12:00 or more). if you want to use that channel some say run XLR to impedance adapter then 1/4, will give a higher signal and a better sound.

I'm going to try it (XLR impedance adapter) when forced to use the 1/4 channel. Hope it sounds more like the XLR signal.

YOUR ANSWER: No you don't have to use the XLR cord and Impedance transformer when plugging into 1/4 unbalanced, a standard guitar cord works fine, but you might get a better sound with the XLR source.

As it happens I just bought one of these impedance adapters (Hosa MIT-176) for half price today at a store closeout. My tests show it works as others have described for Taylor ES. The volume is significantly louder When going balanced XLR to impedance adapter than when plugged in directly with a plain 1/4 guitar cord. Because the gain on amp and volume on guitar is less (2-3 clicks each) the overall sound is better, or fuller. It's not a huge difference but definitely there. You might not notice it if strumming or playing in a band but I like it. Makes playing Taylor ES in the unbalanced instrument channel sound better.

[pieterh]

I have to say that my experiences of the ES (even the latest) are a bit hit a miss. Although Taylor say it's fine to use the guitar with a TS (unbalanced) connection, I do hear a difference. Figures mentioned above talk of a 6dB loss in signal strength. Anyone who has compared an older CD with a MD recorded with 2dB increase in level from the same CD should be able to
testify to the improved sound quality. I don't
think it is just down to volume increase, the equipment likes a certain level to work with - I guess that's why we strive after ideal
gain structure.

In practice: I usually use my Radial pz-Pre to mute, boost and shape the signal from my guitars. My Taylor of course is only able to put half of the signal into the preamp and I am still
struggling to get a suitably neutral acoustic tone, especially up the neck on the plain strings. Well, for last night's rehearsal I decided I couldn't be bothered with all the extra cables, power supplies and so on, so just took the Taylor, it's trs-xlr cable and a 75W powered speaker. Although still a bit mid-heavy the tone
was generally fuller and more satisfying than I normally achieve with the Radial. I shall
continue to connect the Taylor direct.

The Radial does an awesome job on the other Pure Mini-equipped guitars.

[Chedeng88]

Originally Posted by dangrunloh

I plug my 414ce with ES system into a Loudbox Mini and have used both 1/4 and the XLR output from the guitar. To my ears ther XLR sounds more lifelike and less metallic or magnetic than the 1/4 unbalanced.

When using the XLR output, do you connect it directly to the mic input on the right side of the Loudbox Mini?