Shootout: Four Acoustic Preamps

[jamison162]

I've tried a dozen or so acoustic preamp and DI boxes over the last 10 yrs. Most recently was able to demo the new Baggs Venue and Radial PZ-Pre and compare them to the PADI and Fishman Platinum Pro. Here's a quick rundown on my final ranking and thoughts:

1) PADI – Sounds the most natural, you can really hear the guitar’s voice, very warm and woody sounding, unprocessed. I used this preamp for a while before getting the Headway EDB-1 (which has been gone). In the past, the PADI had beat out several other preamps including the Ultrasound, BBE Acoustimax and probably several others I’m forgetting.

2) Venue – Very surprised that this unit did not sound "better" than the PADI to me. Again, it sounds very similar to the PADI but a little more processed and less natural, just fell a little flat compared to the PADI.

3) Radial – Disappointed with this unit, the general preamp tone just isn’t as convincing as I thought it would have been. EQ is very sensitive, hard to dial the mids in right. Better than the Fishman in clarity but does not hold up tonally to the Baggs circuits.

4) Fishman Plat. Pro – what I thought was good tone actually sounds the most processed of these 4 to me. You don’t hear each string in a chord, i.e. the clarity really isn’t there. The smooth knob takes away the quack but really dulls down the tone.


The Baggs DI's were just clearer and had a natural eq more suited for acoustics (at least with the K&K). I was bummed that the Radial didn't fair better tonally because it is a VERY solid built unit and had cool features. I may re-visit the Headway EDB-1 and possibly try the Red-Eye preamp which all the Austin players are using.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by jamison162

. I may re-visit the Headway EDB-1 and possibly try the Red-Eye preamp which all the Austin players are using.

I would be inerested in your evaluation of the RedEye.

Steve

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by jamison162

I've tried a dozen or so acoustic preamp and DI boxes over the last 10 yrs. Most recently was able to demo the new Baggs Venue and Radial PZ-Pre and compare them to the PADI and Fishman Platinum Pro. Here's a quick rundown on my final ranking and thoughts:

1) PADI – Sounds the most natural, you can really hear the guitar’s voice, very warm and woody sounding, unprocessed. I used this preamp for a while before getting the Headway EDB-1 (which has been gone). In the past, the PADI had beat out several other preamps including the Ultrasound, BBE Acoustimax and probably several others I’m forgetting.

2) Venue – Very surprised that this unit did not sound "better" than the PADI to me. Again, it sounds very similar to the PADI but a little more processed and less natural, just fell a little flat compared to the PADI.

3) Radial – Disappointed with this unit, the general preamp tone just isn’t as convincing as I thought it would have been. EQ is very sensitive, hard to dial the mids in right. Better than the Fishman in clarity but does not hold up tonally to the Baggs circuits.

4) Fishman Plat. Pro – what I thought was good tone actually sounds the most processed of these 4 to me. You don’t hear each string in a chord, i.e. the clarity really isn’t there. The smooth knob takes away the quack but really dulls down the tone.


The Baggs DI's were just clearer and had a natural eq more suited for acoustics (at least with the K&K). I was bummed that the Radial didn't fair better tonally because it is a VERY solid built unit and had cool features. I may re-visit the Headway EDB-1 and possibly try the Red-Eye preamp which all the Austin players are using.

I know this is a fairly informal test and it's certainly interesting to hear your take but......

These units, as with anything we do in acoustic guitar electronics, live and or die on proper unity gain, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the input stage. A simple swing of a single dB or two at the input stage (which of course "fuels" the latter stages of any pre-amp/eq) can make herculean difference downstream and of course the outcome.

It even more difficult (comparison-wise) when you don't have any way of properly metering the input stage. Clearly (for those that have used both the Venue and the PADI) the input gain stage is noticeably a different ladder. Where as I love the PADI and I've had one since the beginning of history, the Venue is every bit the PADI, and probably a tad cleaner with WAY more functionality (that of course remains open for interpretation) IF gain staged on equal footing.

[K.E.P.]

I have played through most here with many systems. The Red-Eye sounded the best in my ears and still does. You should try to find one and compare it as well.

[jamison162]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I know this is a fairly informal test and it's certainly interesting to hear your take but......

These units, as with anything we do in acoustic guitar electronics, live and or die on proper unity gain, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the input stage. A simple swing of a single dB or two at the input stage (which of course "fuels" the latter stages of any pre-amp/eq) can make herculean difference downstream and of course the outcome.

It even more difficult (comparison-wise) when you don't have any way of properly metering the input stage. Clearly (for those that have used both the Venue and the PADI) the input gain stage is noticeably a different ladder. Where as I love the PADI and I've had one since the beginning of history, the Venue is every bit the PADI, and probably a tad cleaner with WAY more functionality (that of course remains open for interpretation) IF gain staged on equal footing.

Something to consider, but most of these boxes (sans the Radial I believe) have an input gain clipping indicator. I was plugged into 1/2 of our PA (i.e. left/right only, about 2,000 watts). All units were setup with proper input gain adjustments with the overall output level adjusted to be fairly even between each of them. I don't see where there's a whole lot of room for "input gain" adjustments; certainly not to the point where it would alter the overall tonality of each of these preamps or my opinion of them. And that's just what this review is, an opinion. TEHO of course.

The PADI was the cleanest sounding preamp of the bunch to my ears, which would make sense given the layout and feature set of the Venue. Less is more. Functionality is like Beauty - all in the eye...or in this case, ear of the beholder. I have no need for a Mute, Boost or built-in Tuner. The dual input and footswitchable fx loop of the Radial would have been nice if it had won out tonally.

One final note, the PADI was the only unit running off a 9v battery, all the others were plugged into AC. And we all know batteries sound better right!!!

[southpaw pete]

Thanks for posting!
I have the PADI and PZ Deluxe (among many other numerous ones I've owned over the years). Both are excellent DIs, but for my guitar/pickup, I found that the highs on the PADI sounded a bit thin and harsh compared to the Radial (as was also noted by my wife and other musicians). But then again, that is the beauty of the variety we have in guitars and pickups and preamps...

I had been using the PADI for years, and was happy with my sound, but found it seemed to need a little "extra" something to develop the sound and help it sound a little more natural in my setup, so I added a Fishman Aura sixteen, which sounded even better. Then I bought the Radial to see how it compared. Found I didn't need the Aura or anything else, it just sounded "right" to me. I think it's the best my guitar has ever sounded (amplified).

I'm really glad the PADI is working for you. I don't think I will ever part with mine. Although I do prefer my Radial, this weekend I'm playing a pub with limited floor space and power, so I'm running through the PADI (yeah, the phantom power option is a very nice feature) - and I'm sure I'll be happy with my sound.

[jamison162]

Originally Posted by southpaw pete

Thanks for posting!
I have the PADI and PZ Deluxe (among many other numerous ones I've owned over the years). Both are excellent DIs, but for my guitar/pickup, I found that the highs on the PADI sounded a bit thin and harsh compared to the Radial (as was also noted by my wife and other musicians). But then again, that is the beauty of the variety we have in guitars and pickups and preamps...

While I'm sure there are some tonal differences in the PZ Deluxe and PZ-Pre, I think the differences here with the PADI probably come down to the signal chain as a whole. Mic cables used, preamps on the mixer (huge factor), power amps and especially speakers.

Just for the fun of it here's my signal chain:

Taylor 810/Englemann with K&K Minis
Evidence Audio Reveal Guitar Cable
LR Baggs PADI (9v battery)
Canare Star Quad Mic Cables (throughout)
Carvin C2444 Mixer
Carvin DCM2000 Power Amps
Carvin LS Dual 15" Mains

[ntik]

I think that the di box radial, are better than the radial preamp

[AussieStrummer]

You gotta try the new Archangel. Excellent!!

[lschwart]

You have to set the gain on the PADI by ear, and the PZ-Pre has a two setting fixed input gain (one setting for active and the other passive pickups). Things do depend a great deal on the whole signal chain, not to mention individual ears. FWIW I used a PADI with my passive Baggs M1 for several years, and now I use a PZ-Pre (with that and another guitar with an active pickup system). There are differences in the way the two preamps are set up, and they, of course, offer different features and differently designed EQ sections, but I can't say I notice much (or really any) difference in the "tone" of the preamps themselves. Both are clean and they both make the pickup signal louder. I have no trouble getting pretty much the same tone with either.

Louis

[J Patrick]

...i have found the Baggs PADI to be a reliable and quality preamp but it really needs to redesigned into a more user friendly setup....tiny knobs are the worst...if it was laid out with a clear easy to read and tweak format it would be a much more desirable preamp...i have not tried a Venue or a Radial PZ Pre but i am surprised that they did not fare better in your shootout....Radial DI's are the bees knees and i would think that Baggs would have incorporated technology similar to the PADI in designing the Venue....

[royd]

Originally Posted by AussieStrummer

You gotta try the new Archangel. Excellent!!

it looks like an interesting design... I'd be interested in learning more about it.

[jamison162]

Originally Posted by royd

it looks like an interesting design... I'd be interested in learning more about it.

I already like the company...but, why the need for the footswitch unless it mutes the output; and why not a balanced out. From what I can tell, it's just a 1/4" mono output (but supposedly low impedance).

[randy.blair@sym]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

...i have found the Baggs PADI to be a reliable and quality preamp but it really needs to redesigned into a more user friendly setup....tiny knobs are the worst...if it was laid out with a clear easy to read and tweak format it would be a much more desirable preamp...i have not tried a Venue or a Radial PZ Pre but i am surprised that they did not fare better in your shootout....Radial DI's are the bees knees and i would think that Baggs would have incorporated technology similar to the PADI in designing the Venue....

Just one benefit to tiny knobs and that is they stay at their current settings when the preamp is stored away in a bag of accessories and then hooked up again. The behringer preamp I used to use had larger knobs and they had to be reset almost every time which was a pain since I play every week at the same venue. The padi is great in that respect...and I agree that an easier to read format is much more desirable especially on stage.