Apple

[Riker36]

There was a little talk a while back here about Apple, and their manufacturing overseas, and here's a good article about it. Really all you need to know why they manufacture their products there, rather than here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46143670.../#.TyGC4vk_icM

[architype]

This story just keeps getting worse. I don't own an Apple product yet and I will probably not buy one until I hear about better working conditions in these company towns...I mean "factories."
The coal companies in Appalachia treated workers the same by owning all the housing and stores in the towns and even paid the miners in company script instead of dollars. There was much bloodshed in literal gun battles w/ Pinkerton men hired by the coal companies to prevent the workers from organizing.
I don't know if the Chinese workers would ever be able to organize given the political structure there.
If we as consumers put enough pressure on Apple to change things then maybe these people's working conditions might improve.

[knuckle]

What gets me is this. We send production to China to cut costs over here. China can operate like we can't because they don't have the regulations we have over here.

I've seen some horrifying videos on how polluted that place is because it's an environmental free for all as far as toxic by products of manufacturing.

So to me we're doing the whole world a disservice by doing using China for manufacturing. We all live on the same planet and we will see the repercussions of trying to save money. I'm as guilty as the next guy though with my Apple products.

Watch this video.

http://www.vice.com/toxic/toxic-linfen-china

The lady at the beginning of the video sums it up perfectly.

"There's something fundamentally wrong with the economic model"

[radiokid]

I think that sums it up and presents a great example of why we need to be steadfast in our environmental and human rights requirements.

I am proud of this country and its stand on quality of life measures in the face of all the pressure for bigger profits. It is plain to all that there is dividing line between enough and too much when human suffering is the result.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by architype

This story just keeps getting worse. I don't own an Apple product yet and I will probably not buy one until I hear about better working conditions in these company towns...I mean "factories."
The coal companies in Appalachia treated workers the same by owning all the housing and stores in the towns and even paid the miners in company script instead of dollars. There was much bloodshed in literal gun battles w/ Pinkerton men hired by the coal companies to prevent the workers from organizing.
I don't know if the Chinese workers would ever be able to organize given the political structure there.
If we as consumers put enough pressure on Apple to change things then maybe these people's working conditions might improve.

It's not really fair to single out Apple in this scenario as the article in the NYT times says many of their competitors use the same suppliers. It doesn't make it right but the Chinese manufacturing market in many ways is in it's infancy and is quickly changing. Some of my customers in the US use Chinese suppliers and I'm told that wages are getting better and prices are going up on these products.

Some day, if the government allows, these workers will earn a decent living. The truth is that these are good jobs by Chinese standards which is sad but it's not tragic if put into context.

[architype]

Originally Posted by MSchott

It's not really fair to single out Apple in this scenario as the article in the NYT times says many of their competitors use the same suppliers. It doesn't make it right but the Chinese manufacturing market in many ways is in it's infancy and is quickly changing. Some of my customers in the US use Chinese suppliers and I'm told that wages are getting better and prices are going up on these products.

Some day, if the government allows, these workers will earn a decent living. The truth is that these are good jobs by Chinese standards which is sad but it's not tragic if put into context.

Agreed. All emerging economies go through this stage, but our voracious appitite for faster, newer, cheaper gadgets reinforces this kind of treatment of workers.

[jmcc]

Originally Posted by architype

Agreed. All emerging economies go through this stage, but our voracious appitite for faster, newer, cheaper gadgets reinforces this kind of treatment of workers.

Your comment assumes China plays by International rules. However, China's monetary policy means high inflation at home, very little improvement in worker's lives, and cheap products abroad.

[architype]

Originally Posted by jmcc

Your comment assumes China plays by International rules. However, China's monetary policy means high inflation at home, very little improvement in worker's lives, and cheap products abroad.

Well we've painted ourselves into a corner. We can either stop buying electronics all together or start building them here again.

[SteveCacoustic]

Originally Posted by architype

Well we've painted ourselves into a corner. We can either stop buying electronics all together or start building them here again.

Yeah, but who's going to pay 3 times as much for virtually everything we purchase. It's not just electronics, it's not just Apple. You think anyone will go back to land lines and USPS. I'd love to see the world take a step back and slow down, but I doubt that will happen any time soon.

[cpmusic]

People have often wondered why it is that electronics get less expensive over time, while other products just go up on price. Sadly, these stories explain why. Yes, the prices would be higher if the products were made here, but if the products had never been made elsewhere, we'd be used to those higher prices. The manufacturers might have even found another way to keep prices reasonable.

As it stands, with electronics and many other items, we have a race to the bottom for production costs. If Chinese workers ever get decent wages and safe working conditions, I expect the manufacturers will look elsewhere for cheap labor. This already happened in Japan and South Korea -- not that nothing is made in those countries anymore, but that little or nothing is made there on the cheap.

[radiokid]

So...the iphone is the crack cocaine.

Apple shareholders and foreign governments are the drug lords and cartels.

The factory workers, local environment and the American economy to an extent, around these factories are the collateral damage.

Sounds about right.....

[RichM752]

I travel to China by ship for a living. When I'm there loading cargo, rarely do I see anyone smile.

[Chicago Sandy]

When I visited China in 1994 (on a trip sponsored by the Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin Medical Societies), we were taken on tours of a cloisonné and jade factory in Shanghai and a carpet factory in Beijing. I was struck by how young the women working the kilns, lathes and looms were. Apple's use of Chinese labor-mills is nothing new, alas.

[HHP]

The quality of life for working people in China is not great, but it never has been. Prior to the factories, a lot of these people were subsistence farming. It unrealistic to think you would go directly from that to organized collective bargaining overnight. China will change but the system in place there will make that difficult and dangerous.

[radiokid]

If our own history is any indication, China has a long road ahead of it.