HELP: I'm Lost. What Should I Learn Next?

[Jimmy25]

Hey Guys! I'm an intermediate player who's a little bit lost and doesn't know what to learn next.
Basically, what I know when it comes down to playing electric guitar are:

-All The Notes On The Neck (Octaves)
-Barre Chords (CAGED System)
-Power Chords (Palm Muting)
-Triad Chords (Not familiar with all shapes but understand how it works)
-Some Finger Exercises (Building finger speed & power)
-Playing With Metronome. (Building skill on timing)
-Techniques (Minimum Movement;String Bending;Rolling;Vibrato;etc)
-The Major Scale (All Five Positions)
-Minor&Major Pentatonic Scale (All Five Positions)
-Improvisation With Backing Track Using Different Licks (But not so creative)

I think that's pretty much it, of course I still have A LOT more to learn, but I just thought it would be helpful if someone who have been through this road could give me a direction on what to learn next. Perhaps sharing your effective steps on learning guitar from experience. Recently, I don't know what to learn, so I decided to learn some new songs I personally love that are at my level, like "Tears In Heaven" by Eric Clapton, which is a great song, not too hard and not too easy and it suits my level & taste in music. Or "Hotel California" by The Eagles including the solo. Those songs are a bit challenging for me at different points, which is great for improvement. Anyways, my point is:

1) Looking at what I know, do you guys have any suggestions on the next step I could take? or in other words, what should I learn next?
2) Looking at where I am, do you guys have any suggestions on "songs" that would be at my level and requires some guitar techniques that I could learn from or build up while learning the song?
(BTW: I do know how to read TAB but personally I prefer learning from videos like how I learned Tears In Heaven by watching Justin's tutorial on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yC8W_DGwcU), great lesson, very effective. So if the song you guys are suggesting got a video tutorial, or knows a guy who offers great song lesson on internet (I know Justin and Marty on youtube. Both are great teacher), feel free to share the link as well.)
3) Any other website that offers decent guitar lesson other than http://www.justinguitar.com/index.php?
4) I can put in some time to read tab and be able to play a song, but kinda want to learn to play by ear. Meaning I got a friend who's able to hear a song and know what key it's in or even play melody that's similar to the song without anyone teaching or reading music. I wonder what it takes to get this skill?

It would be best and very helpful if you guys could not only say "what" but also explains "how" XD thanks!!
ps. I DO have a band to jam with in school and also in church.
I must say it's a lot of fun and you could really learn a lot from each other!

ALSO. I just bought a new guitar recently and the playability is incredible, much much better than my last guitar. Since then, I practice almost the whole day during weekend and if not almost right away after school till time to sleep. I'm really putting in a lot of time to practice, and it's something I love doing and enjoy. Right now it's just the matter of taking the right step for the most effective way to improve. So it would be great if you guys to help me out. cheers^^

That's All Guys. Any Reply Will Be Highly Appreciated. THANK YOU =D

[RussB]

Play with other people. Star/join a band


(and post in the proper section )

[wood nacho]

I agree with Russ

Jam with other musicians in your area. That's where I learned the majority of what I know today.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Jimmy25

...1) Looking at what I know, do you guys have any suggestions on the next step I could take? or in other words, what should I learn next?
...That's All Guys. Any Reply Will Be Highly Appreciated. THANK YOU =D

Hi Jimmy...
As a seasoned vet of guitar, and as a teacher, that is not a one-answer-fits-everyone question.

If someone in my community asked me that, I'd invite em over to the house to sip coffee and listen to them play and we'd talk goals, what they want to accomplish, and I'd be finding out what they already know.

It's a matter of the goal, accumulated skills to-date, necessary skills needed, and ability to apply one's self which result in direction of growth.

[daza152]

Learn the Drums next??

[Hotspur]

Well, the missing skill is ear training. I'd encourage you to download the functional ear trainer (it's free!) from Miles.Be, as well as start using the book "Ear Training for the Contemporary Musician" by Keith Wyatt et al.

But beyond that, I notice something completely missing from you post:

Where's the discussion of the music that excites you? What do YOU want to play?

You should look to the music that inspires you, find songs in that range that are just outside your ability to play, and focus on learning them.

I would also second the idea of starting to play with other people. There's a world of difference between jamming with other musicians compared to playing over a backing track.

[daza152]

Try playing songs your've only ever heard electric play them acoustic with your own take on it??

[JonPR]

1. Find a song you like (that you don't already know). Don't look up tab for it. Learn it by ear, any way you can (lots of slowdown software to help if you need it). As well as guitar parts, learn to play the vocal line, bass line, any horn or keyboards riffs, etc. (Vocal melodies are an excellent resource for solo phrases.)
You may come across technical issues - things you can't quite play yet. So learn how to do those.
If there's a solo section, make a backing track using the same chords and solo on it, over and over. Don't learn the original solo, unless it has some really great licks in it - you can steal those, but make sure you mess around with them and do them your way.

Personally I would make this kind of thing your SOLE focus from now on. Don't just learn technical stuff; work from actual songs, and learn any new techniques that those tunes require.

Work on improvising too (as above), but don't forget the importance of good rhythm guitar. Make sure you know your fretboard, and how to form any chord in several different positions on the neck (if you don't know the CAGED system, check it out). Work on grooves and rhythmic feels, and let your improvisation grow out from that. IOW, don't think of rhythm and lead as very different things. You can't be a good lead guitarist if you are not also a good rhythm guitarist.

2. Find other people to jam with, or even form a band with. That will teach you what's really important, and what isn't so important . (You may be surprised on both counts .)

[Jimmy25]

Alright, so after I read all the responses. Basically, It seems like the best way to go for me now is to get my ear into some training. However, I basically spend almost the whole day today checking out Justin's "Blues Rhythm Guitar Series" ( http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-000-Blues.php ) to understand the standard blues progression of I-IV-V. I must say it was something fresh for me, and it's definitely helpful and very interesting to learn and understand how it works. Now I know the blues I-IV-V progression including the main variations (6th or 5th string roots), I-IV Climb (sliding into chords), using little finger for more variations, and playing around with the idea of the 12 Bar Blues in different major key's backing track. That was really fun I must say. Apparently, I know there are much more of these kinds of standard progressions, and I would like to learn them as I found this useful and interesting. Do you guys mind mentioning them so I could check them out as well? or I guess Imma just google it...lol. So in the end, can I put it this way, by knowing a standard progression like for example the blues I-IV-V progression, if you hear a song starting with the chord D (which means "I" would be "D" obviously) it's most likely going to be G (IV) or A (V) on the following chord? and in this case, you get a better idea on which chord to progress to next and not simply guessing or trying out atw from chord D-C. And so with an understanding of the progression, it's extremely helpful, since it just comes down to trying out the few chords in the progression and use the ear to see if it suits the music. Is that right? please fix me if I'm wrong. I did mentioned quite a few things I know when it comes down to playing electric guitar, but chord progression is sth new for me and I think this would be my next step, which also allows me to do some ear training by using the chords in the chord progression to see if it suits the music. Do you guys think this is an clever and effective way to go? cheers guys : D !!

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Jimmy25

Now I know the blues I-IV-V progression including the main variations (6th or 5th string roots), I-IV Climb (sliding into chords), using little finger for more variations, and playing around with the idea of the 12 Bar Blues in different major key's backing track. That was really fun I must say. Apparently, I know there are much more of these kinds of standard progressions, and I would like to learn them as I found this useful and interesting. Do you guys mind mentioning them so I could check them out as well? or I guess Imma just google it...lol. So in the end, can I put it this way, by knowing a standard progression like for example the blues I-IV-V progression, if you hear a song starting with the chord D (which means "I" would be "D" obviously) it's most likely going to be G (IV) or A (V) on the following chord? and in this case, you get a better idea on which chord to progress to next and not simply guessing or trying out atw from chord D-C. And so with an understanding of the progression, it's extremely helpful, since it just comes down to trying out the few chords in the progression and use the ear to see if it suits the music. Is that right?

Pretty much, yes.
Blues has a fixed sequence, 90% of the time. Eg, if it starts on D, the next chord will almost always be G, either in bar 2 (sometimes) or bar 5 (always). A comes later.

Other types of song in the key of D will also (probably) contain G and A chords, but the sequences are (almost) infinitely variable.

1. Most of the time, the song will start on the key chord.
(Ie, occasionally the first chord of a song is not the key chord. It doesn't happen often in rock, but two 60s examples are the Beatles "All My Loving", and the Kinks "Waterloo Sunset".)
But generally speaking, assume the first chord is the key chord, especially if they keep playing it for a while!

2. The first chord change (let's stay with key of D) is quite likely to be to either G or A. But if neither of those sound right, the next most likely is Bm (the vi chord).
If that doesn't seem to be right, try Em or F#m.
If none of these seem to be right, it may be a chord from outside the key, and the most likely of those is C.

Here's a chart of the most common guitar keys, with the most common chords (left to right).

MAJOR KEYS
I    IV   V   vi   ii   iii   bVII
C    F    G   Am   Dm   Em    Bb
G    C    D   Em   Am   Bm    F
D    G    A   Bm   Em   F#m   C
A    D    E   F#m  Bm   C#m   G
E    A    B   C#m  F#m  G#m   D

(There is such a thing, theoretically, as a vii chord, which is diminished. But you will almost never hear one, so it's not worth worrying about. The bVII is much more common.)

There are also MINOR keys, and you should be able to tell the difference. They have a darker, moodier feel, and they'll usually start with (and always end with) a minor chord, and there can be an odd variety of chords.
Here's the more common ones:

MINOR KEYS
i    iv   V   bIII  bVI  bVII
Am   Dm   E    C     F    G
Em   Am   B    G     C    D
Dm   Gm   A    F     Bb   C
Bm   Em   F#   D     G    A

You might sometimes get a major IV chord (eg D in A minor) or a minor v chord (Em in A minor).

Remember changes can come in ANY order. The above is just a very approximate order for how common each chord is in that key.

It's also fairly common for MAJOR keys to borrow chords from the "parallel minor". Eg, if you have a song you're pretty sure is in the key of A major, but you hear chords that don't seem to be any of the above set, look at the chords in A minor too. Eg, it's not uncommon for C, F or Dm to crop up in the key of A major.

There are other possibilities, but that will do to start. The thing to remember is that the above is just the most likely things you'll hear. It's not a set of hard and fast rules. Trust your ears, and if you think you hear something different, you probably do. (A good tip for identifying chords is to listen for the bass note. Most of the time that's the chord root. You can get software which will slowdown audio, and raise the octave to help you hear the bass. I use this: http://www.seventhstring.com/)

And remember that notes can often be added to chords, which can make them sound different. Experiment with playing chords like 7ths, add9s and sus4s, so you get familiar with those sounds, which can be quite common.

Lastly, another few things that can throw you off : guitarists often tune down a half-step, so that when they play an E shape it sounds like Eb. And they might tune in some other odd way, or use a capo, so as to make a rare and difficult key easy to play with simple shapes. (If you find you really can't get to first base with a song, something like this may be happening. Google may then come to your rescue .)

[JonPR]

Just thought I'd add some examples of common progressions you might often come across:

I-V-vi-IV - check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMshvUReunc

I-vi-IV-V

I-IV-V-I

I-V-IV-I

I-bVII-IV-I

i-bVII-bVI-V (minor key)

[wcap]

As others have said, this really comes down a lot to what sorts of music you like, etc.

But if you want something really different from what you seem to have been working, on - something that might open up some new horizons - try learning some nice fingerstyle arrangements (these can often sound great on electric guitars). I know you said you want to learn by ear rather than learning from tablature, but getting some good fingerstyle arrangements under your belt shows you some different ways to approach guitar arrangements, and after a while these can become somewhat second nature to you.

This site has enough great fingerstyle arrangements to keep you busy for years to come (assuming you like some of the music here):

http://frettedinstrumentsnyc.com/

[brahmz118]

Originally Posted by JonPR

(There is such a thing, theoretically, as a vii chord, which is diminished. But you will almost never hear one, so it's not worth worrying about. The bVII is much more common.)

Since we're talking about the blues, you'll hear diminished chords frequently in the turnaround licks often played after a verse. Even though a diminished chord could be re-interpreted as a dominant 7th chord without the root, it might not always make sense to think that way.

Here's a good link about blues turnarounds with sound samples explaining the difference between the two interpretations:

http://www.torvund.net/guitar/index....turnaround_1-1

And if I may go a step further, I have to disagree when Jon says it's not worth worrying about. I think these ambiguous diminished chords are one of the best ways to add new colors to your chord vocabulary. But they can get confusing to talk about, so some people avoid them entirely. It is possible to use them without getting weighed down with the theory, even if it's just a matter of getting the sound into your head.

Here's a movable progression I like to play:

3x44xx
4x34xx
5x55xx
5x45xx

The second chord is a G#dim7 chord. It could be called an E7b9 without the E, but there is a subtle difference between the two. An E7 -> Am cadence is pretty strong, whereas as a G#dim -> Am cadence is a little weaker. Sometimes the weaker and more ambiguous cadence is preferred. So if you know the concept of secondary dominants, it probably won't be too hard to add the idea of secondary leading tone seventh chords. That's what the G#dim7 chord is.

You can hear the chord in a song like Blackbird: "Take these broken wings and learn to fly" over the chords C - C#dim - D - D#dim - Em.

Two secondary leading-tone seventh chords in a sequence. In roman numeral notation it might look confusing: IV - vii/V - V - vii/vi - vi. But the sound is simple and linear. If you try to play it as C - A7 - D - B7 - Em it might sound ok or it might sound off. Depends who's listening.

I leave you with this video of Happy Trails. If you like the chord vocabulary in this tune, check out more on diminished chords!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VldAz60Z4

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by brahmz118

Since we're talking about the blues, you'll hear diminished chords frequently in the turnaround licks often played after a verse.

Yes, but those are chromatic passing chords - not major key vii chords. (Normally they're dim7s, by implication, not half-dims.)

In jazz blues, you frequently get #IVdim7s in bar 6 too. Again, though, not a vii chord. (I think it counts as a "common tone diminished", resolving back to I.)

Originally Posted by brahmz118

And if I may go a step further, I have to disagree when Jon says it's not worth worrying about. I think these ambiguous diminished chords are one of the best ways to add new colors to your chord vocabulary.

Sure.
But I was addressing the OP's issue of learning new songs by ear, starting with simple sequences, basic chords to listen out for. If he sticks to rock music, he won't hear a major key vii chord. I could almost guarantee it, but then (hopefully!) someone would post an example (I'd love to see one).

Originally Posted by brahmz118

But they can get confusing to talk about, so some people avoid them entirely. It is possible to use them without getting weighed down with the theory, even if it's just a matter of getting the sound into your head.

Here's a movable progression I like to play:

3x44xx
4x34xx
5x55xx
5x45xx

The second chord is a G#dim7 chord. It could be called an E7b9 without the E, but there is a subtle difference between the two. An E7 -> Am cadence is pretty strong, whereas as a G#dim -> Am cadence is a little weaker. Sometimes the weaker and more ambiguous cadence is preferred. So if you know the concept of secondary dominants, it probably won't be too hard to add the idea of secondary leading tone seventh chords. That's what the G#dim7 chord is.

You can hear the chord in a song like Blackbird: "Take these broken wings and learn to fly" over the chords C - C#dim - D - D#dim - Em.

Two secondary leading-tone seventh chords in a sequence. In roman numeral notation it might look confusing: IV - vii/V - V - vii/vi - vi. But the sound is simple and linear. If you try to play it as C - A7 - D - B7 - Em it might sound ok or it might sound off. Depends who's listening.

I leave you with this video of Happy Trails. If you like the chord vocabulary in this tune, check out more on diminished chords!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VldAz60Z4

All good stuff. I wouldn't argue with any of that, if the OP is ready for it .

I think if we were going to address dim chords, the dim7/half-dim distinction is worth addressing.

Dim7 = vii chord in harmonic minor, resolves to tonic. Eg G#dim > Am.
Half-dim (m7b5) = ii chord in minor key, moves to dominant and then to tonic. Eg, Bm7b5 > E7 > Am.

That's the most common jazz usages, but there are others - for dim7s in particular, as you've outlined, normally as dom7 subs in various places.
(The use of Bm7b5 as vii in C major is extremely rare, even in jazz, unless one counts its use as a rootless G9.)


It would be good to hear of some rock songs which use these chords. (I can think of "This Love" by Maroon 5, which uses a dim7.)

[brahmz118]

Well I already mentioned Blackbird. We could also include Strawberry Fields Forever, Michelle, Because, and probably a bunch of other Beatles songs. I'm sure the Bach-influenced shredders have tons of diminished chords. I understand there's a difference in 'weight' between an actual vii, a secondary vii, and a chromatic passing chord - but the unique diminished sound is still present in all cases.

When I looked at the OP's list, since there was no explicit request to stick with rock only (despite having a taste for it), the first thing I thought of was more chord colors. For me, diminished chords are high on that list. When I'm noodling around with chords I often imagine the root of a major triad creeping up a half step, or the 3rd and 5th of a major chord creeping down a half step - all to walk through that magical doorway of multiple possibilities created by the amazing diminished chord.