Yamaha sounds better than all solid alvarez.

[Iolas]

So I bought the Yamaha FG730s as a beater and I now play it more than the Alvarez MD80. I don't know what it is but I love the tone of the Yamaha. The Alvarez does not have as good as projection, still good though. The alvarez is also alot more bell chiming sound than the Yamaha which sounds nice and full.
So what should I look for when I eventually buy an expensive guitar? I'm thinking I should stick with the sitka since I imagine that is why the Yammie has more projection. And I should go with something other than Mahogany to stay away from the bell type sound.

Don't get me wrong though. I still love teh Alvarez and for some songs I would rather play it, but I absolutely love the Yamaha. I wasn't even expecting it to be this good, the one I got from MF is much better than the ones I have played in the stores. Just to note it...I have Light Nanoweb PBs on both.

[gitnoob]

Isn't the Yamaha bigger than the Alvarez (at least in the width of the lower bout)?

If you like that "bigger" sound, your next guitar should be a jumbo.

[ahorsewithnonam]

Originally Posted by Iolas

So I bought the Yamaha FG730s as a beater and I now play it more than the Alvarez MD80. I don't know what it is but I love the tone of the Yamaha. The Alvarez does not have as good as projection, still good though. The alvarez is also alot more bell chiming sound than the Yamaha which sounds nice and full.
So what should I look for when I eventually buy an expensive guitar? I'm thinking I should stick with the sitka since I imagine that is why the Yammie has more projection. And I should go with something other than Mahogany to stay away from the bell type sound.

Don't get me wrong though. I still love teh Alvarez and for some songs I would rather play it, but I absolutely love the Yamaha. I wasn't even expecting it to be this good, the one I got from MF is much better than the ones I have played in the stores. Just to note it...I have Light Nanoweb PBs on both.

I have the same guitar with the same exact strings. She's pretty wonderful isn't she? Wonderful tone. I have several youtubes of it. Then, I bought a Martin a few weeks ago. Wow, so much deeper, fuller, and lush. Now the Yammi has gone from 1st place to being my beater. But I still love it.

[Iolas]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

I have the same guitar with the same exact strings. She's pretty wonderful isn't she? Wonderful tone. I have several youtubes of it. Then, I bought a Martin a few weeks ago. Wow, so much deeper, fuller, and lush. Now the Yammi has gone from 1st place to being my beater. But I still love it.

Lol, I just noticed your vids are the ones that convinced me to pull the trigger on buying the Yammie...Small world, lol.

[leeasam]

Yamaha sounds better than all solid alvarez.


I can believe that. From the Yamies I have played would be much more richer sounding than the over bright and thin Alvarezes.

[Mike_A]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

I have the same guitar with the same exact strings. She's pretty wonderful isn't she? Wonderful tone. I have several youtubes of it. Then, I bought a Martin a few weeks ago. Wow, so much deeper, fuller, and lush. Now the Yammi has gone from 1st place to being my beater. But I still love it.

do you have vids of the martin yet?

[ahorsewithnonam]

Originally Posted by Mike_A

do you have vids of the martin yet?

Not yet. I plan to do that this weekend if I can get everyone out of the house for a while.

[bfloyd6969]

Originally Posted by Iolas

Don't get me wrong though. I still love teh Alvarez and for some songs I would rather play it, but I absolutely love the Yamaha.

This is the reason I use different strings on different guitars. I like to be able to have different sounds from them. I like to use silk and bronze for the more folky stuff and either PB or 80/20 for the grittier stuff. I don't think two guitars have the same strings on them. Yes, the FG730 is a great guitar!!

[Ivob]

I must agree that Yamaha guitars are veeery good instruments. More than 2 years i played a basic model, F310, which has probably a laminate top (but i'm not sure). now i want to give it as a gift to somebody who wants to take palying guitar seriously because it's a great guitar for beginners. a few weeks ago i bought Dowina grand auditorium (a local manufacturer here in slovakia) with a cedar top and since then i fell in love with cedar sound. but once i will surely buy some spruce yamaha from LS series, they look and sound amazing and as all yamaha guitars they're precisely manufactured

[Iolas]

Since I've got nanoweb PB lights on both and I like them on the Yamaha...what strings could I try out with the Alvarez's engleman/mahogany?

[JTFoote]

I know exactly what you are talking about, and my first thought is the differences in the top wood. I have a similar Alvarez (the 12-string version) and the Engelmann top produces a very nice bell-tone, but it doesn't have a lot of bass, and it also doesn't have more than moderate projection.

I suspect that the bracing is somewhat different vs the Yamaha, also.

If I recall correctly, the Yamaha is Sitka, and that tends to be louder and warmer than Englemann, on average, and even though mine has a certain amount of compression wood, it still won't be breaking windows any time soon.

I've found that mine is excellent for recording, without all the bass and overtones. Less clean-up.

When you are at the point when you are asking questions like, "So what should I look for when I eventually buy an expensive guitar?" -- This tells me that you are yet too inexperienced to be looking for more guitar than that Yamaha. This is not a criticism; we all were once in that place, and thought much about the same kind of things.

My point being; you need to take the time to really learn to play, and then start thinking about something better. Your mind, hands and ears will lead you. You'll discover the types of music you like to play the most, although you may find that this will not be static. Your technique will develop, and this will force you in various directions, such as body size, tonewood type, preferred neck shapes and nut widths. Your ears will become more educated, which will eventually cause you to look for guitars that have a specific kind of tone.

But you'll have to reach that level before you'll be far enough along to know for a fact exactly what it is you'll be searching for.

Lots of folks can give advice as to what they think the best instrument will be for you, but it's well to take that advice with some salt. Each will have favorites, out of all the categories I've mentioned, but perhaps only some of them, or even none, will ultimately suit you, and your personal tastes. That you can only discover for yourself. You can't get anybody to pee for you, either, and it amount to much of the same thing. It's a solo trip. Through umpteen music stores.

My personal advice would be: stick with what you've already got. Learn to appreciate what you now perceive as weaknesses in the Alvarez as strengths. The two guitars are different, but that doesn't mean one is better than the other. Find ways to pull the best tone out of each, and try not to compare. The very reason that players have more than one guitar, is precisely because of that ... to take advantage of the differences so that music can be interpreted with more imagination.

Play both, and when the day comes that you require a more versatile instrument, you'll have a much better idea of what to try and find. Meanwhile, start saving money, so you'll be ready.

And BTW, there's nothing wrong with a bell tone, and both mahogany and rosewood can have that sound. Just avoiding one or the other won't help. If you really dislike the sound, experimenting with different strings and different gauges would be the more intelligent approach, as well as being much easier on your wallet. Don't rush out and start buying guitars in order to find "your" perfect tone ... you don't know what that is yet.

Personally, I like a bell tone on certain guitars. But I also like the sound of the rest of the instrument with it. Just FYI.

Cool out, save the cash, and have patience.

I played a Yamaha for ten years when I first began, and there wasn't a darn thing wrong with it .... it was a very serviceable guitar. I'd estimate that I played guitar for twenty years before really feeling the need to find a truly superior instrument, and I played a lot of very good mid-range guitars during that time, which taught me a great deal about what I believe is a good one, and one that is not so good. I'm fairly well educated in voice, guitar, piano, harmonica ... I've worked as a sound engineer. I can wring out a band for a stage set-up entirely by ear, and I've done so on multiple occasions. Despite that, it really took quite a while before I had played enough, on enough guitars, and finally knew enough about sound to devote a real chunk of change towards something worth keeping for life.

All good things come to those who wait. That statement is never more true than when it comes to music. And practice. Practice, practice, practice. Otherwise, it's all just a waste of time.

... JT

[bfloyd6969]

Originally Posted by Iolas

Since I've got nanoweb PB lights on both and I like them on the Yamaha...what strings could I try out with the Alvarez's engleman/mahogany?

What don't you like about the current sound of the Alvarez compared to the Yamaha?... I know you commented on the bell like tone of the Alvarez, but is the Alvarez lacking boom or sizzle?

[JTFoote]

Originally Posted by Iolas

Since I've got nanoweb PB lights on both and I like them on the Yamaha...what strings could I try out with the Alvarez's engleman/mahogany?

Try medium gauge 80/20 strings, such as John Pearce. If you want to have sufficient tension to move that top and create some warmth and volume, these will help considerably. Skip the coating, and you'll hear more of the guitar. The coated strings I've used in the past tend to add brightness. And they often were noisy, too.

Most of the time, I head straight for 80/20 strings with a mahogany guitar. The alloy won't aways be suitable, but it's a good place to start.

I know that many people think that light strings are easier to play than mediums, but here's a fact; unless you are arthritic, have had some kind of accident, have tiny hands like the Burger King guy, or have a degenerative bone disease, there's no reason not to at least attempt to play with mediums, which will suit the vast majority of dreads. It might require a slight truss rod tweak, but not always. People tend to forget, or just don't know, that thicker strings oscillate less than thinner strings, and that very thickness places the bottom of the string closer to the fretboard ... so if the guitar is properly adjusted, there is less distance from the string to the fret ... simply because medium strings can be played with a lower action without buzzing.

Cut the distance, and you don't have to push down as far, or as hard, to fret cleanly.

I've never used lighter strings so that I can supposedly play easier with less tension, or to save my hands and finger tips. Instead, normally, I use a medium gauge round-core string, which already has less tension than standard hex-core strings, and then take down the action even farther than I could with the light gauge. I get great playability, and a better tone.

The only good reasons I can think for an otherwise healthy person to use lights ... One; the top can't handle the tension. Sometimes even a dread can suffer from this, but it's not prevalent among guitars of this size. Certainly this applies to smaller, lighter guitars. Two; someone has developed a technique that requires a whole lot of serious bending. If you need more than a whole step, go with lights. Three: They just like the sound. In other words, for effect. Which is as good as reason as any. But to me, that's not the average sound of a good dread.

I prefer to alter the sound of my guitars with my picking hand, instead of going with a thinner string. I can get a similar effect with a thin pick, which is easier to swap out than the strings, IMHO.

BTW, I've had carpal tunnel issues for twenty years with my left hand, and play almost entirely without pain, if I stretch in advance, and pay strict attention to my technique.

Later ...

... JT

[bfloyd6969]

Originally Posted by JTFoote

Try medium gauge 80/20 strings, such as John Pearce. If you want to have sufficient tension to move that top and create some warmth and volume, these will help considerably. Skip the coating, and you'll hear more of the guitar. The coated strings I've used in the past tend to add brightness. And they often were noisy, too.

Most of the time, I head straight for 80/20 strings with a mahogany guitar. The alloy won't aways be suitable, but it's a good place to start.

I know that many people think that light strings are easier to play than mediums, but here's a fact; unless you are arthritic, have had some kind of accident, have tiny hands like the Burger King guy, or have a degenerative bone disease, there's no reason not to at least attempt to play with mediums, which will suit the vast majority of dreads. It might require a slight truss rod tweak, but not always. People tend to forget, or just don't know, that thicker strings oscillate less than thinner strings, and that very thickness places the bottom of the string closer to the fretboard ... so if the guitar is properly adjusted, there is less distance from the string to the fret ... simply because medium strings can be played with a lower action without buzzing.

Cut the distance, and you don't have to push down as far, or as hard, to fret cleanly.

I've never used lighter strings so that I can supposedly play easier with less tension, or to save my hands and finger tips. Instead, normally, I use a medium gauge round-core string, which already has less tension than standard hex-core strings, and then take down the action even farther than I could with the light gauge. I get great playability, and a better tone.

The only good reasons I can think for an otherwise healthy person to use lights ... One; the top can't handle the tension. Sometimes even a dread can suffer from this, but it's not prevalent among guitars of this size. Certainly this applies to smaller, lighter guitars. Two; someone has developed a technique that requires a whole lot of serious bending. If you need more than a whole step, go with lights. Three: They just like the sound. In other words, for effect. Which is as good as reason as any. But to me, that's not the average sound of a good dread.

I prefer to alter the sound of my guitars with my picking hand, instead of going with a thinner string. I can get a similar effect with a thin pick, which is easier to swap out than the strings, IMHO.

BTW, I've had carpal tunnel issues for twenty years with my left hand, and play almost entirely without pain, if I stretch in advance, and pay strict attention to my technique.

Later ...

... JT

Good words of advice! I'm one of those with 'itis' issues in my fretting hand and am moreso using silk and bronze these days. I do find that I need to have the action higher for them to sound best. I find that even with the higher action, the extra low tension lbs. that silks have don't give me any troubles. I also have a few gits with regular PB and 80/20 on them that I need to keep the action REAL low in able to fret them pain-free. All the guitars have different sounds to them (which I like all the different sounds), but the ones with the regular PB's and 80/20's have more oomph behind them

[Iolas]

Originally Posted by bfloyd6969

What don't you like about the current sound of the Alvarez compared to the Yamaha?... I know you commented on the bell like tone of the Alvarez, but is the Alvarez lacking boom or sizzle?

Lacking the boom. The Yamaha has a nice balanced boom. I guess I'll try some uncoated medium 80/20s on the Alvarez.