A/B'ing my 114ce vs Ibanez Artwood

[Mike_A]

Hi guys,

the past few days, i've been doing a lot of A/B'ing on my new 114ce. I have a small 15w acoustic amp at home to do some tests.

Since this is my first time to have a Taylor, I wanted to know just how much different it sounds versus my "lesser" guitars. I have an Ibanez Artwood AW15 with a solid cedar top and laminate B/S and mahogany neck with a DTAR sadducer pickup which I installed myself.

first of all, the 114ce is about 5 times the price of the artwood. Unplugged, the 114ce is a bright sounding guitar, but a very sweet kind of bright, now I understood what the Taylor "bell-like" sound is all about. The artwood just didnt have any of this kind of resonance, and I thought that my artwood was "bright" sounding compared to a lot of guitars i've heard and played! That said, i still consider the artwood sound beautiful, while the taylor sound is exhilarating.

another welcome surprise, the 114ce seemed to project louder than the artwood dreadnaught. one would think that any dread should be louder, and my artwood is pretty loud already, but the 114 just sounded bigger.

Next thing I noticed is the overtones on the 114ce. it is wonderful, like a choir singing in harmony with the strings. now a/b'ing against the artwood, i now realize that the overtones of the artwood doesnt have that special kind of harmony, more like random and unbalanced. Prior to this, i used to brag about how beautiful the artwood resonated overtones...

Plugged in test -

using my amp set at flat EQ, the ES-T sound is bright as well. a very good representation of the unplugged sound i believe. it is awesome at fingerpicking but can be a bit honky (or is it quacky) when strummed hard. cutting the mids on the amp arrested the issue. cutting the treble on the onboard controls of the 114ce affected not only mids but highs as well so that was not a good option.

now my artwood has a DTAR sadducer and A/B'ing it with the 114ce ES-T i found that their sound is very similar, the ES-T just a tad brighter and a little more sparkle in the highs. with some EQ tweaking, i think the sadducer can approach the ES-T sound. i think its because they have similar piezo transducers with individual elements.

in summary, i found the 114ce in a totally different league unplugged compared to my artwood (even though i think my artwood is a freak guitar that is better sounding than most in its price range and higher).

However, plugged in to a small amp the 114ce is not far better than the artwood equipped with a very good piezo pickup like my DTAR Sadducer.

I have not tested the 114 in a large venue and directly attached to a PA, but I will soon find out as I have some worship leading assignments coming up this week and the next.

sorry for the long post, im in love with my guitars!

[JoeStrummer]

Pardon my ignorance , but what the heck is 'A/B'ing' ????

[sidneystreet]

Originally Posted by JoeStrummer

Pardon my ignorance , but what the heck is 'A/B'ing' ????

An A/B test comparing two things.

Listen to example A (Taylor), then to example B (Ibanez)...repeat this sequence until you reach some conclusion.

[Mike114]

Very nice Mike. I'm wondering if putting a K & K PWM in my 114e might improve the plugged in sound somewhat. I'm already very happy with the tone of my guitar but wondering what besides a bone saddle might improve it even more when plugged in.

-Mike

[Mike_A]

Hi Mike114,

based on feedback from K&K PWM users, it is safe to say that yes it will improve the plugged-in sound because the PWM will pickup more of the soundboard and bring your 114e plugged in sound closer to a mic'd sound. But how do you plan to do that? I promised my self not to mess around with my 114 electronics like i've been doing with my other guitars


on the subject of bone saddle, i just saw in the taylor site that they actually sell a bone saddle for $xx dollars. i'm quite happy with tusq right now but will probably order this bone saddle in the near future. Is Mr. Colosi's version better than this?

https://www.taylorguitars.com/taylor...id=1009&page=1

Taylor part number:

Acoustic Wave Compensated Bone, Right-Handed, # 80604

[Chazmo]

Ah, Ibanez Artwoods... Well, I've heard the latest Artwood Studios are very good acoustic instruments. They are not cheap, though.

For the record, first generation Artwoods were truly wonderful and unique. I know it's been a long time (almost 30 years) since the Artwoods were introduced. They strayed from their original concept because of cost, but I have quite a soft spot for them.

Plugged in sound is entirely a function of the electronics that you use, not so much the acoustic sound of the actual guitar. Most modern Ibbys use B-Band systems. The K&K PWM that was already mentioned in this thread is one that I've used on one of my old Ibby acoustics as well as my newer Guild 12 string. They are very nice.

The best plugged-in sound (i.e., most acoustic sounding) for your AW-15 might be from a mixing system with a microphone and a transducer of some sort. DTAR makes a nice mix system.

[Mike_A]

Hi Chazmo, my artwood is very dear to me, its one of those guitars that I didnt look for, but it found me. you know when you are not really shopping for a guitar and just doing the usual rounds of trying out guitars for the heck of it. thats how i found this AW15. it just sounded different from 10 other artwoods, including the artwood studios! it was so good that i bought it even though it didnt have no pickup. i wanted to use it so much for stage later on that i practically learned drilling endpin jacks and piezo pickups into guitars. right now it is a dual source with DTAR sadducer and a free-ended jack where i can put a dimarzio soundhole pickup or an internal electret mic.

modern artwoods actually use either B-band's or fishman p/ups.

another great ibby acoustic is the steve vai euphoria which has an onboard AURA! almost the same price as a 114ce though so i went with taylor.

anyway, i still love my artwood and will definitely still use it on stage, was quite surprised that plugged in, it can hang with the 114ce, normal folks in the crowd (not obsessed like me) would probably not even tell the difference. hehehe.

here's some pics of the dual end-pins that i installed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_al...no/4170081237/

the two jacks were installed 1 year apart, the first one was the middle one which is an All-Parts brand to connect the dimarzio dp139 internally, the second one is the endpin that comes with the DTAR sadducer package. no, there wont be a third one...

it may be butt-ugly but when the leather strap is connected in the middle endpin and 1/4 cables are plugged in, it doesnt look so bad...

[Chazmo]

Mike,

Unusual, maybe, but certainly not butt-ugly. I wonder if you'd get a better sound with a condenser microphone as one of your sources though, Mike. In any case, if you're happy with the plugged-in sound, rock and roll.

I know *exactly* what you mean about a guitar finding you, and that's always a keeper. My Series I AW-75 was one of those experiences for me (back in 1981 when I bought it in New York). More recently, a Guild F-512 practically knocked my socks off in a store and was a similar experience.

[Mike_A]

Hi Chazmo, feedback issues with an internal condenser or electret mic prevent me from using it on stage. it does give that additional "air" or "cave-like" sound but i end up dialing in very little from the mic to prevent feedback that in the end, all the fuzz to set it up outweighs the benefits. i use an outboard preamp/DI instead to soften/warm the tone further if needed. too warm and the guitar gets lost in the mix...

[Chazmo]

Sounds good, man. FYI, you'll get feedback from a K&K (piezo transducers mounted on bridge plate) if your speakers are facing the soundhole. I guess that'd be even worse with a mic.

Some folks use soundhole covers when they're plugged in. I'm not that fancy.

[Alexrkstr]

Sounds about a fair assessment of a 114ce... and really a lot of guitars because what you hear when it's plugged in is the piezo and electronics, very little has to do with how it's built. I find the Taylors to be very consistent with their plugged in sound from the 314ce to the 814ce (no significant difference to my ears)

[Mike_A]

Originally Posted by Mike_A

Hi Mike114,

I promised my self not to mess around with my 114 electronics like i've been doing with my other guitars

Ha! stumbled upon one of my early posts about my 114ce, and in just over 6 months I take it apart and perform a DIY neck reset on it. i havent touched the electronics though as promised