The lack of Truss Rods in Classical Guitars

Kindness · #1 10-13-2009, 05:11 AM

My teacher, who is a masters level student at ASU for music, has three classical guitars, all properly humidified. All of the necks have warped on all but one...his Takamine. Takamine is as far as I know, the only production company that puts a truss rod in their classical guitars.

Many dispute that nylon strings do not put enough tension on the necks to cause warp. I think that some of the luthiers on the site will agree that a truss rod in a classical guitar is as necessary as one in an acoustic.

I just can't imagine that the cost of putting a truss rod in is that expensive. Perhaps as nylon stringed guitars become more popular, they will install them.

Lisa

Bugeyed · #2 10-13-2009, 05:29 AM

Most classical guitars without truss rods do not have problems with necks warping. I am interested to hear this discussion. Installing a truss rod necessitates the removal of quite a bit of wood in the core of the neck. For that reason, a solid neck is not the same animal as a neck with a truss rod. It seems to me that a neck can warp or twist even with a truss rod. I would like to learn more about all the benefits of a truss rod & better understand how a well seasoned neck in a classical guitar would benefit from a truss rod.

Kindness · #3 10-13-2009, 05:38 AM

Bugeyed,

The neck on my Esteve classical guitar warped, which ultimately necessitated my purchasing the Takamine. I too, like my teacher, am very careful and make sure my guitars are humidified properly. The local luthier says he has a number of classical guitars come in and all of the necks were warped. He believes that a truss rod is necessary, and won't build a classical guitar without them.

Lisa

Bob Womack · #4 10-13-2009, 06:01 AM

I honestly believe that this is a tradition-driven decision. Much like people won't buy a Gibson Les Paul Standard with any real cosmetic changes, people don't, by and large, seem to want to deviate from the norm in classicals. The tradition thing has been a real weight around the neck of Gibson and I believe it is so in classical

Bob

Bugeyed · #5 10-13-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itself

Bugeyed,

The neck on my Esteve classical guitar warped, which ultimately necessitated my purchasing the Takamine. I too, like my teacher, am very careful and make sure my guitars are humidified properly. The local luthier says he has a number of classical guitars come in and all of the necks were warped. He believes that a truss rod is necessary, and won't build a classical guitar without them.

Lisa

Interesting. How are these necks warping? I mean, are they showing a twist or is the neck bowing? I will do some more research on some other forums & report my findings. IMO this is a very important issue & I have not heard much discussion on the subject. Thanks for bringing it up.

Kindness · #6 10-13-2009, 06:22 AM

Kev,

The necks are bowing. I think that many may not report it as how many people take their guitars to a luthier for a set up, who notices the bowing. To my eye, I can't see it, but my luthier picked it right up.

I can tell you this, when I had my handbuilt done, it had a truss rod installed. IMHO, I would never spend big dollars on a classical guitar without one.

Lisa

Matt Mustapick · #7 10-13-2009, 10:12 AM

I make classicals guitars with 2-way adjustable truss rods. The tension on a classical generally doesn't require a truss rod. I see the issue as a trade off between weight (some classical players are not used to the weight of the rod), and the ability to dial in the neck relief to exactly where you want it. To me, the issue of neck relief is far more important than a little extra weight in the neck.

Bob Womack · #8 10-13-2009, 10:33 AM

I took my new classical to my luthier (yes, luthier) for a setup a while back. He said, "I can set it up with a refret and planing."

Bob

aragorn · #9 10-13-2009, 12:24 PM

Interesting thread.

Going by the published specs on guitar strings, there is no doubt that the neck on a classical guitar sees less stress, and the difference is pretty large: the steel-string must resist an additional ~45-60 lbs of force or more, which is a large percentage of the total force on a classical.

The question in my mind is whether that difference is enough to avoid having the neck bow over time. I suppose the other factor is how stiff the neck/fretboard combination is.

Higher-end classicals seem to almost always have reinforced necks made with laminates, e.g. ebony inserts. Because most classicals are built with higher action, I think in part to avoid buzzing because the string tension is so much lower, I expect to also see more neck relief (neck bow above the 5th fret or so).

I don't know of a reason why the use of truss rods has never caught on with classicals. I imagine it is a combination of tradition and reduced need. I can't say that I miss one on my instruments. My father has a classical that's at least 35 years old. That neck hasn't budged in that time as far as we've noticed.

It might be nice to be able to adjust the action, but frankly, I haven't felt the need. Maybe we don't know what we're missing

-brian

ewalling · #10 10-13-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itself

My teacher, who is a masters level student at ASU for music, has three classical guitars, all properly humidified. All of the necks have warped on all but one...his Takamine. Takamine is as far as I know, the only production company that puts a truss rod in their classical guitars.

Many dispute that nylon strings do not put enough tension on the necks to cause warp. I think that some of the luthiers on the site will agree that a truss rod in a classical guitar is as necessary as one in an acoustic.

I just can't imagine that the cost of putting a truss rod in is that expensive. Perhaps as nylon stringed guitars become more popular, they will install them.

Lisa

I share your view. I used to have a classical without a truss rod and a pretty brutal action! Now I have a Takamine TC135SC and I would not have bought it had it not had a truss rod. I feel that this puts me in more control of the neck and to enable me to experiment with string tension more. Playability is paramount for me, which means that I want to be able to make fine adjustments.

Kindness · #11 10-13-2009, 05:16 PM

ewalling,

Great point. The action on my Esteve was HORRIBLE. Once I got the Takamine, I had my luthier do a set up, including a truss rod adjustment, and wow what a difference. I didn't have to fight the guitar any more!

Lisa

Jeff D · #12 10-13-2009, 05:28 PM

I think if they use a 5 ply neck with carbon inserts there wouldn't be a need for classicals to have a trussrod. I do support classicals with trussrods though and I wish mine had one although mine is so cheap I could just buy another if the neck ever bows.

#13 10-13-2009, 05:31 PM

I've had the Alvarez classical for about 30 years and it hasn't needed a truss rod. The neck has never had any problems. When I want to adjust the action I change the height of the bridge. (Right now, and I am not kidding, I use a broken off piece of plastic "Pick Up Stick" lodged into the bridge slot - gives me the action I want!) But the neck is solid and true, and that poor guitar has been through everything imagineable.

#14 10-13-2009, 05:39 PM

I'm curious whether pro-level classical guitarists use instruments with truss rods?

Matt Mustapick · #15 10-13-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Stone

I'm curious whether pro-level classical guitarists use instruments with truss rods?

Mostly no. Great instruments are to be found with and without, but there are a whole lot more instruments without, so there are a whole lot more great ones without.