New song - critique please

Fliss · #1 08-08-2008, 02:17 PM

I'd like to request your critique, please, on my new song, written this week.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

Fliss

neiby · #2 08-08-2008, 02:53 PM

What aspects of the song are you seeking a critique for? Songwriting, recording or playing? Or any of the above?

Fliss · #3 08-08-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neiby

What aspects of the song are you seeking a critique for? Songwriting, recording or playing? Or any of the above?

Mainly the songwriting, but I'm open to anything that helps me improve in any area.

Fliss

neiby · #4 08-08-2008, 03:05 PM

Much of songwriting comes down to individual preferences, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. I do have some suggestions, though.

I've written some lyrics and poems in the past (very different things, by the way) and I've also written fiction and technical documentation. On a related note, I'm also currently taking a class about writing better fiction.

One thing you always strive to do as a writer is to find new and creative ways to say things that have often been said before by others. This is especially difficult with lyrics because you have limited space in which to write. Economy of words is very important. It's not like writing fiction where we can basically write as much as we need to. With lyric writing, we have to choose words very carefully.

One trap that we lyric writers fall into is the need to say everything. We write way too much in any given song. But look at the works of many great songwriters and you'll see that they leave out a lot, but leave hints to fill in the gaps.

For your song, I would suggest some sort of distillation process. Take the words you have and sift through them. Find the core pricinciples you're trying to get across. Then brainstorm different ways to get those ideas across. Perhaps using simile, metaphor or other more abstract language, you can convey very large ideas in fewer words. It sounds to me as if you have too many syllables and are rushing to get them all into the song.

One other related note is purely a stylistic preference. In most "pop" songs, there are discrete melodic phrases that are directly related to the lyrics. In your song, sometimes the lyrics seem to overflow their given "space". It's as if the melody would support x number of syllables, but the lyrics demand x+5 syllables, so the extra syllables splill over into an unrelated melodic phrase. Does that make sense?

One of the benefits of paring down the number of words and syllables in your writing is that it frees you up melodically. You can explore a lot of different directions without being forced into any particular decision. Having too many syllables in a small space forces your hand and limits your options.

I hope that was helpful! If not, ignore it.

Bern · #5 08-08-2008, 03:35 PM

I think, your guitar playing has improved tremendously from your previous post, fliss. I think, you should work on your vocals a bit more, though, rhythmically and pitch wise. You have a very pleasant voice, however, it must blend musically. Thanks for posting your music, I hope it will encourage other members who want to better themselves.

jmhyer · #6 08-08-2008, 03:48 PM

I like the song very much in terms of structure, lyrics, and melody. And I agree with Bern that your playing is coming along nicely. Your vocals need some development. I assume the guitar and vocal were cut simultaneously. Do you have the means to lay down separate tracks and then combine them? That way you could focus solely on whichever one you were doing at that time.

Overall, nice. I admire your courage and thank you for sharing. That's certainly more than I've managed to do.

neiby · #7 08-08-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmhyer

I like the song very much in terms of structure, lyrics, and melody. And I agree with Bern that your playing is coming along nicely. Your vocals need some development. I assume the guitar and vocal were cut simultaneously. Do you have the means to lay down separate tracks and then combine them? That way you could focus solely on whichever one you were doing at that time.

Overall, nice. I admire your courage and thank you for sharing. That's certainly more than I've managed to do.

Yes, sharing personal songs is *very* courageous! Sharing something you've created with others can be very spooky. It's not for the faint of heart!

Bern · #8 08-08-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neiby

Yes, sharing personal songs is *very* courageous! Sharing something you've created with others can be very spooky. It's not for the faint of heart!

Yeah, but think if one gets up the courage, once or twice, it becomes easier.

neiby · #9 08-08-2008, 04:09 PM

It definitely gets easier with time, but it certainly can be a harrowing experience, especially in the beginning.

Fliss · #10 08-08-2008, 04:11 PM

Thanks very much for your comments, guys, this is all helpful and constructive.

I am trying to work on my singing, but unfortunately my singing teacher has been unavailable for lessons for the past month or so because of other commitments. However, I'm hoping we'll be able to re-start in a few weeks. It's still less than a year since I started learning to sing (I didn't really do any before then, on the occasions I'd tried I knew I had no technique and I used to try to sing quietly so that no one would hear) and I know I still have a lot to work on, but I'll definitely keep at it.

Bern, thanks for your comments about my guitar playing

I have just started having lessons with my new guitar teacher, and I tried to incorporate some of the things I've learned from him (2 lessons so far!) so I'm very pleased that it seems to be showing.

I'm most concerned about the problem with fitting the lyrics to the music, as this is something I got comments on last time and I thought I'd done better with this song, but it looks as if I was wrong. It's helpful to know that. My guitar teacher, Phil, is a songwriter as well and has said he will help me with my songwriting, so I'll speak to him about this when I have my next lesson and see if he can give me some guidance to help with that distillation process.

jmhyer - I'm using Audacity to do the recording. I think it does have the capability to do different tracks, and to edit the recording, but I'm not very technically-minded and I haven't yet worked out how to do that. I take your point that it will be useful to do it, so I'll see if I can find out how.

Fliss

neiby · #11 08-08-2008, 04:19 PM

Fliss, I don't know if this would be helpful, but it might be a fun exercise. Do you have your lyrics to this song written out? If so, IM them to me and let's work on a few ideas. Maybe we can come up with some examples of what I'm talking about. I'm not a professional lyricist, so no promises that I'll be overly helpful, but it could be fun to try. This is an area in which I also need to improve.

Fliss · #12 08-08-2008, 04:21 PM

Thanks neiby, I'll send you a PM

Fliss

Bern · #13 08-08-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fliss

I'm most concerned about the problem with fitting the lyrics to the music, as this is something I got comments on last time and I thought I'd done better with this song, but it looks as if I was wrong.
Fliss

Try to record the guitar part by itself. Then sing along with the track and tap your foot or whatever helps you to keep the beat. After a while it'll come to you and it becomes easier.

Frank Roberts · #14 08-08-2008, 06:35 PM

Fliss,

First let me say, I loved the spirit of your song; the sentiment and the sense of bonding you were expressing.

I think you can apply the good advice of others above to help you better communicate to your audience what you are trying to express. I concur in particular with what neiby said, " In most "pop" songs, there are discrete melodic phrases that are directly related to the lyrics. In your song, sometimes the lyrics seem to overflow their given "space". It's as if the melody would support x number of syllables, but the lyrics demand x+5 syllables, so the extra syllables splill over into an unrelated melodic phrase."

I, like neiby, am willing to help. And I too am not a professional lyricist, but one who is trying to improve in this area.

Frank

Guit Hacker · #15 08-08-2008, 07:16 PM

First let me start by saying, I appreciate anyone who puts themselves out there. I have written many songs but rarely share them because of my critical nature. Hopefully this critical nature can come in handy here and you can pull some useful morsel from it.

I have a couple of things to add to the previous comments that are a little more specific. I may get some of this wrong but hopefully the idea will come across. When editing certain passages like "and I will try to watch over you, I will try to be you guide". I've found that taking out extra words is the 1st place I start "I will watch over you and try to be your guide". I'm not saying that it works here specifically, but it is a good thing to try. Rewrite the same passage several ways to see how the cadence fits. Sometimes it can really make the song.

Also, when you started the song (guitar only) it had a very specific rhythm. When you started singing the rhythm got lost in places. This suggestion is going stink, but it's completely worth it. When writing/composing a tune the rhythm isn't at the front of the process, but after all the insperation has gone and we have a completed song it's time to fine tune it. This also fits into the previous vein of editing lyrics. You should try and match up certain words or syllables to certain parts of the guitar i.e. If you pluck a bass note on the 1st beat of every measure you should know what word should match up with that note, etc., etc....... This can be very tedious but it will yield great rewards. If you find it awkward to sing a passage over a rhythm then something probably needs to be reworked.

Good luck.