Big Coal-Big Oil

Folkstrum · #1 08-13-2007, 06:37 AM

Just saw a commercial (in the middle of these two mine-collapses) produced by the American Coal industry. Timing is everything I guess. However, the statistic is interesting: we have as much coal energy available (after mined) that is equal to TWO Saudi Arabias oil potential!

Where we live, we have a local coal-burning electric plant, that has recently begun to convert to natural gas. The coal burning is really clean here-you would never know. Must have those "scrubbers" or whatever to virtually eliminate the dirty burn characteristics. Meanwhile, those who live INSIDE the city (sadly, we are outside on National Grid

) have ALL-electric homes-heat, water tanks, stoves-you name it! Typical winter bill (because the energy is subsidized-but that is phasing out)? Maybe $60-75.00 bucks! Yep. That's in the dead of a north-east winter with squalls, lake-effect, and weeks where the temps never crest 32º. Meanwhile, JUST our electric (we have a gas boiler, and pellet stove) will run $90.00-$120.00. THEN there's our gas bill!

I think since the phasing in of gas fired turbines, and gradual elimination of coal, rates in the city are creeping up. But-coal has gotten remarkably clean to burn (heck, my grandparents furnace was coal, chute into the basement and all, until it fell out of favor in the 1950's).

Coal mining is an inherently risky job...as the past 10 days shows. I think those trapped miners are sadly not among the living anymore. Very sad.

SongwriterFan · #2 08-13-2007, 07:05 AM

Yep, we've got LOTS of coal in the US.

But, it's not PC to mine it or burn it.

kitsinni · #3 08-13-2007, 08:03 AM

Coal is clean to burn but really dirty to harvest.

The Dude · #4 08-13-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsinni

Coal is clean to burn but really dirty to harvest.

How so? Is it less problematic than oil (and buying into all the problems in the Middle East) or nuclear energy (and the problem of waste disposal)?

kitsinni · #5 08-13-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dude

How so? Is it less problematic than oil (and buying into all the problems in the Middle East) or nuclear energy (and the problem of waste disposal)?

I didin't really mean it in a political sense. Have you seen what a miner looks like after leaving a coal mine .. very very dirty.

If you ask some of the people who have seen beautiful valleys turned in to giant holes in the ground due to strip mining, I'm sure they see it as problematic though.

The Dude · #6 08-13-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsinni

I didin't really mean it in a political sense. Have you seen what a miner looks like after leaving a coal mine .. very very dirty.

If you ask some of the people who have seen beautiful valleys turned in to giant holes in the ground due to strip mining, I'm sure they see it as problematic though.

I'm not trying to politicize the idea - sorry if it came out that way. I was just curious what you meant by 'dirty' because I know nothing about coal mining.

astrummer · #7 08-13-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsinni

Coal is clean to burn but really dirty to harvest.

It still generates carbon dioxide when it's burned......

SongwriterFan · #8 08-13-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrummer

It still generates carbon dioxide when it's burned......

And the plants appreciate it.

preston · #9 08-13-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsinni

I didin't really mean it in a political sense. Have you seen what a miner looks like after leaving a coal mine .. very very dirty.

If you ask some of the people who have seen beautiful valleys turned in to giant holes in the ground due to strip mining, I'm sure they see it as problematic though.

I worked in the mining industry for 15 years, live in the heart of mining country, and regularly fly over vast portions of this state and adjacent states where mining is prolific. . . and I can tell you that the anti-mining hyperbole and reports of "land-raping" and "flattening mountains", "burying streams" and "turning the environment into a wasteland" is a load of crap.

This comes from the usual NIMBYS who oppose any kind of power that inconveniences them or spoils their view; in other words - ANYTHING that is close to them. I see it, I'm close to it, I live with it every day.

The details and stories and realities of this could cover volumes and the mis-information and popular notions pushed by celebrities and "journalists" and "environmentalists" with agendas is what gets reported.

Like any industrial enterprise, there is a certain amount of disruption (dirt, noise, etc.) on active sites; but a lot of the "communities" that supposedly displaced by mining activity exist only because there was mining there to begin with. And after the areas are through mining and regraded and replanted, nature begins to reclaim the areas almost immediately. And I personally see sites where the mining was finished and the reclamation done over 20 years ago now, that one is hard pressed to tell from the surrounding un-mined terrain.

The main problem with the image of mining these days is from a bunch of talking heads with no real or practical knowledge on the subject spouting off as experts in the media where opinion becomes fact to the clueless.