Nick Drake's Guitar(s)

[rjames1973]

I am a big fan of Nick Drake's music and was wondering what kind of acoustic guitar(s) he played. I've seen some old pictures of him with a guitar, but I can't determine whether it is a Martin or a Gibson. Does anyone know where I could find information on the guitar(s) he played? Thanks!

- Jim

[Plaid Coyote]

I know he had a small bodied Guild, maybe a F-30 or F-20. I don't know about the others.

[cgregory]

It's debated as to what he actually used, but most think it was the Guild M-20 he was holding on the cover of Bryter Layter. He also used a borrowed classical in a few songs, but I don't think anyone's sure of what it was.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Plaid Coyote

I know he had a small bodied Guild, maybe a F-30 or F-20. I don't know about the others.

People are under the, mostly misguided, notion that Nick recorded with a Guild M-20, the mahogany topped version of the F-20.

HE

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

People are under the, mostly misguided, notion that Nick recorded with a Guild M-20, the mahogany topped version of the F-20.

HE

Do you know better Howard? Do tell.

[Plaid Coyote]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

People are under the, mostly misguided, notion that Nick recorded with a Guild M-20, the mahogany topped version of the F-20.

HE

lol, and???? is there more to this or are you just a tease Howard?

[rjames1973]

Yes, the suspense is killing me -- especially since I posted the question.

- Jim

[cgregory]

I think Howard is one of those that believe this guy that was with Nick at the time of the recordings; he says that Nick played a Martin...IIRC it was a D28. I am one of the misguided who believes it was an M20. If you've ever heard an M20, the sound of the small body in solid mahogany is really unmistakable.

[Howard Emerson]

Hi all,
If you'll take the time to email Brian at Acoustic Music.org up in Guilford, CT, I'm sure he'll be happy to share some of his first-hand knowledge with you.

He's at [email protected]

By the way it's really one of the best shops in the Northeast and well worth the trip! I recently did a teaching clinic there, but I've known Brian for quite a few years...........Very, very knowledgable, especially when it comes to English acoustic players.

http://www.seriousstrings.com/index.html

Best regards,
Howard

[Plaid Coyote]

Originally Posted by cgregory

I think Howard is one of those that believe this guy that was with Nick at the time of the recordings; he says that Nick played a Martin...IIRC it was a D28. I am one of the misguided who believes it was an M20. If you've ever heard an M20, the sound of the small body in solid mahogany is really unmistakable.

The only way that sound comes out of a D-28 is if he bought the guitar at Guitar Center and went right to the studio. I would buy that it is a Gibson, but certainly, it is mahogany.

[Coolazice]

Robert Kirby:

"I only remember a Martin D28 and his Spanish guitar – that is not to say he did not have others. I think he sold the D28
after Pink Moon, but before the 4 last songs, in part exchange for the smaller 00015 (or was it 00018). Brian Wells has this
Martin and Gabrielle still has the Spanish"

"John Wood does say he remembers recording some tracks with Nick on a Guild and I am sure he is right."

John Wood (anecdote from member adamfozzy on the Nick Drake forum):

"I am luckily enough to have John Wood recording me in the next few months and I had a telephone chat with him and asked
what guitar Nick used. He said an M20 with dead strings."

John Cale:

The Complete Guide To The Music of Nick Drake: Nick bought a "Martin D28 guitar, to supplement his trusty Guild F-20"
after he was introduced to John Cale's Martin D12- 12 string guitar (accourding to an interview with Cale in 2007).
(source: Peter Hogan, page 43).

Peter Rice:

"For my part, my memory of the guitar Nick was using at least in the first part of 1968 was that it was the Guild M20.
When setting up for the recording of his demo tape, I played the guitar while he went into the control room to listen to
the sound. The guitar strings were worn out, but he liked them that way."

Richard Thompson:

"I only ever saw Nick play his small-bodied Guild guitar."

Brian Wells:

Another of Nick’s guitars now belongs to Brian Wells, who was given it by Rodney after Nick’s funeral: “I own Nick’s Martin
D28… I don’t think it ever appeared on an album, because I think a lot of Pink Moon was done with a gut string, I don’t think
it was done with a steel string… I think he bought the Martin after Pink Moon, because when he died it was quite new – perhaps
he sold the Guild to buy it. It had a normal tuning, which was quite rare, as most of Nick’s guitars were tuned to some funny
tuning."

Jeff Dexter (another forum post by member Stuart Villarroel):

"Jeff Dexter, who knew Nick well and worked at Witchseason when he wasn't being everywhere else in the sixties, says Nick's
guitars were the Spanish Guitar and a Yamaha Red Label FG the same type as John Martyn had in the early days, most likely
an FG-180. The FG-180 had MAHOGANY back and sides, which is why the Guild M20 may have a similar sound."


And detailed speculation from 2 websites:


Tom Hanson:

"It is a Guild M20, a fairly inexpensive, all-mahogany (back, sides and top), satin-finished, small-body ("0" or concert-sized)
guitar--a model Guild offered during the 50's, 60's and 70's. All-mahogany guitars are a bit rare, really, being prevalent mainly
during the depression years when Martin and Gibson sought to bring the price of their guitars down by offering less ornate models
with mahogany tops (the more expensive spruce being the standard topwood). Because of their low price and their bright, punchy
tone, these guitars became very popular among acoustic or "country blues" players. During the folk revival of the late 50's and 60's
--owing in part to the admiration many folkies felt for those early blues players--the all-mahogany guitars became popular again.
Bob Dylan had a similar guitar at the beginning of his career (a Martin 00-17), for example.

As a passionate Drake fan over the last ten years and an aspiring guitarist/ songwriter myself, I often wondered how much of a role the
guitar itself really played in his overall sound. Having had the opportunity in recent years to play and record with guitars of varying body
sizes and wood combinations, including M-20's, I can say that I think it did in fact play a significant role.

Some of the characteristics of a small, all-mahogany guitar--and particularly of a Guild M-20--are as follows: The mahogany top lends
warmth with a sharp attack and is very DRY--the reduced sustain produces incredible separation of notes (with worn-out strings, it can
sound at times almost like a classical) . The small-body adds crispness and brightness, emphasizing the upper strings (there is little bass)
and is ideally suited to alternate tunings (you can crank the high E string up to F# or G without it breaking or choking and you can drop
the lower strings down several steps without overbearing rumble).

Perhaps the most important thing is that the smaller (but fatter) sound of such a guitar leaves ample room for the player's singing voice
--especially when that voice is deep and resonant. This is important in Drake's case, I think: a bigger, bassier dreadnought guitar would
likely have taken some of the warmth and presence out of his voice, making it sound smaller.

Lastly, the mahogany top, while crisp, definitely has darker overtones than spruce. I suspect that if Drake had used a spruce-topped guitar,
his stuff would have sounded a bit "prettier" and less "haunting"--a quality most of us love about his music."


From the 'Playing Nick Drake' website:

"There is much speculation here. Guild guitars must make a small fortune off sales of their GAD M20 guitar - a modern
reproduction of the late1950s M20 that Nick is pictured holding on the cover of Bryter Layter. I had one myself at one
stage, and it is undoubtedly a nice guitar, but evidence tells us that that was a photoshoot prop, and not Nick's guitar.

Clearly, however, that M20 holds a great deal of magic, because we all know the image from Bryter Layter. Accounts
from that day suggest that although it was a prop, Nick loved the guitar...

It has been suggested that his early recordings were made using a Yamaha FG180, the same as that used by John Martyn
at the same time. He is also pictured several times with an unknown nylon string guitar, possibly a Yamaha S50?
(A friend suggested this to me recently, and pictures seem to match)

It is my understanding that he was very keen on, and in his later years traded his guitars for, a Martin OOO-18, which was
used for the recording of his last few songs after Pink Moon.

I have found that the best results for trying to make my guitar sound like Nick's is to let the strings get old!! It is reasonable
to say that strings were not of the same tonal quality in the 1960s and 70s to what they are now, and it is also likely that
Nick used Silk and Steel strings, which were common in that era. You can still get very good quality Silk and Steel strings,
and i recommend you try them for an experiment. You will note a severe drop in volume from normal strings though.
They feel and sound fantastic though, if volume isn't a priority for you."

So the contenders are:

Martin D28
Martin 000-15/000-18
Guild F20/M20
Yamaha FG-180
Levin (there is a photo from 1967 of him playing one, not sure which model, maybe a FG)

I suspect he may have used all of the above...

[cerealplayer]

great post coolazice, huge fan here, 'love the Drake'
(shameless seinfield reference)

[Coolazice]

No worries.

For what it's worth, here is one plausible timeline for Nick Drake's guitars:

****

1967

Early photo of Nick playing a Levin guitar (Dreadnought, not sure which model. He is also likely playing this guitar still in 1970)

1968-1970

Possible early recordings with a Yamaha FG-180
Recordings with a small bodied Guild (perhaps a F-20, while the M-20 was a photo prop, or perhaps it was solid mahogany all the way)

1970-1972

Bought a Martin D-28 in addition to the Guild/instead of the Guild before or after Pink Moon (my ears tell me he used both a dreadnought and a small bodied guitar on that album, but I wouldn't bet on it!)
Sold the D-28 after Pink Moon for a Martin 000-15/18

****

The certainty of this timeline gets stronger chronologically - we know for certain he bought and used a Martin 000-15/18, and we know for certain he owned the D-28, we just don't know if/when he used it. There's strong evidence for the Guild (John Wood and Richard Thompson should be reliable witnesses, and Kirby doesn't disagree), but it's made problematic by the fact that we know that the one on the cover of Bryter Later was a prop. The Levin photos tell us he played it at least once, and probably 1967-1970, but nobody has any anecdotes about it in the studio. About the Yamaha and Drake's early recordings we know nothing - it could be hearsay.

But after sifting through all the evidence, it seems that it really may have been a small bodied mahogany Guild, with a dreadnought (Martin D-28 or Levin) beside it on Pink Moon, which is responsible for what you hear on his 3 studio albums. I haven't seen any good evidence for any other guitars, but I'd love it if anyone could post such info!

[ocarolan]

These make interesting reading -

http://www.nickdrake.com/Robert_Kirby_Q__A.html

http://www.nickdrake.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4801

http://www.nickdrake.com/talk/viewto...&highlight=d28

keith

[rthanson]

I am the "Tom Hanson" quoted in one of the posts above. About 12 years ago, at the request of its webmaster, I wrote an article for one of the main Nick Drakes websites, "The Nick Drake Files" about Nick's guitar. While I vouched at that time for what I had read along with what I had tried to suss out myself through experimentation, enough new information has been brought out since then and I now believe the most likely scenario to be something like what "Coolazice" describes. I've wanted to amend my article for quite a while but the Nick Drake Files stopped being updated back in 2004.

I can't remember if it's been mentioned in this discussion but there is one small, grainy picture of Nick Drake playing live and he is definitely using a dread in that image. Whether it is a D-28 or something else, it's difficult to say.

Back when I thought he played an M20, and owning a vintage version myself at the time, it was easy to assume that that is what he played throughout his recordings. The sound is very close. HOWEVER, over the ensuing years, I have realized just how plausible it is that he could have played any of the instruments others have attributed to him--including a D-28. This is mainly because of his habit of using low, dropped tunings and preferring very "dead" strings. These factors create that "dry," dark and clear tone. It can make a big guitar sound small and intimate. There is a comment somewhere from a friend of Nick's who recalls playing Nick's D-28 and thinking that it played much more easily than other guitars. This could be due to the lower tension of the strings, a low action set-up and/or the worn-in nature of the strings (I suppose he could have used special strings like "silk and steels" too, but I'm not sure about that).

I have some more thoughts for another post, but I'll just add here that while, as a person inspired by Nick Drake, it was fun over the years trying to figure out his guitar and sound, I ultimately realized what I really knew all along--that what was unique and powerful about his music was something that transcended any specific instrument (and isn't that always the case?).