Replacement pickup systems for Emerald X7? Never mind - figured it out!

[mountainmaster]

@Earl49, you remember correctly but this seems to have changed. On the Krivo website it says: "Formerly available exclusively on select guitars by fine builders such as Emerald and Fibonacci Guitars."

@Scott, I was never a fan of the Krivo's acoustic tone. After all it is still a magnetic pickup. Combined with a piezo it may be fine but by itself it sounds like an electric guitar to me. For example...

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by zeeway

Hey Scott,

The Krivo Humbucker "installs" on the top with a bit of sticky putty...I did drill a hole near the end for routing the wire...which may give you pause...

Yeah, not drilling a hole in the beautiful woody top. Sounds like you can't get the Krivo anymore, anyway unless ordered already installed in an Emerald straight from Emerald.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by kitesurfer

i had the same issue on my x7 and x 20. my guy used his old trick of putting foil under the bridge. there is a ryme or reason as to why and how much foil to use, but that i don't know. but it fixed my x7 and x20.

Foil under the bridge? I can't even imagine what that would do or how it would work. Maybe you mean foil under the saddle? I guess I could see that working but it would definitely need to be a trial and error kind of thing, at least it would be for me.

[Methos1979]

Since a few people are following I'll post an update. I've now removed the strings at least a half dozen times trying to get this system (Element) to work. I've replaced the saddle and tried everything short of the foil trick mentioned above. Nothing. The low E, B and high E strings are very hot while the A, D and G strings are nearly dead. I'm thinking the bottom of the saddle slot must be concave, definitely not flat. It's the only thing that makes sense. That will be the next thing I check into.

I've been looking at a ton of non-UST, SBT-type pickup systems trying to figure out which one to use. I watched dozens of YouTube demos for the various offerings yesterday and the one common thing with all of them is that they sound like crap. There was a great one the compared several of the major players to each other as well as to the sound of the guitar mic'd and they all came up short. Probably the Dazzo's were the best of the lot. But anything that requires glue will not work for this guitar because due to the offset soundhole I'll be working blind.

So, something that either uses tape or putty needs to be what I go with. Something like the HFN or the Baggs Lyric come to mind. I've tried both of those in other guitars and was less than impressed. Part of my issue is due to my adoption of Cole Clark guitars. Everything sounds like crap compared. One good thing is that because of the constant removal/reinstall of the strings, I've now grown very accustomed to the Emerald pinless bridge system which I hated on my last X7. I've got a few tricks that have allowed me to utilize that system with relative ease.

But 9 years and six Emerald guitars later it's sad to realize that, for me at least, Emerald still can't install a decent pickup system in their otherwise great guitars.

[jricc]

Scott, there is one more thing you can try that has worked for me.
Try a thin business card thickness strip under the A,D,G strings. It does 2 things, it increases pressure to ust for those strings and decreases the pressure to the E,B, E strings. You may have to try it a couple of times, if the business card is too thick, maybe a piece of paper. It's not perfect, but it has worked for me.
Good luck.

[mountainmaster]

I don't know if it would fit but with a Graphtech Microbalance saddle you can adjust the pressure per string.

https://graphtech.com/products/strin...ance-16-radius

[DownUpDave]

Scott as you know many people complain about the the HFN not having enough bass and too much treble. That would work in your favour, also the ability to use putty for the install. FWIW I have the HFN in two guitars and love the tone. One guitar is very balanced, good bass, the other I need to crank the bass up a bit, no big deal. Good luck with everything

[mbroz]

Scott - I had a similar problem with my X7 (though not as bad as it appears you are having) and I used "foil" trick, but to be specific, foil tape (typically used for AC ducting) stuck to the bottom of the saddle under the strings that were too quiet. I used the foil tape because it because it's easy to keep it in place, thin, sticky, and easy to trim so it was only on the bottom of the saddle and not on the sides, etc. I trimmed it with a razer blade.

My results were an improvement, but it was a bit of trial and error (basically playing with how many layers of tape under different strings). I think I ended up with one piece under 4 strings with one additional small piece under just 2 of those 4 strings.

To be clear, I'm not saying I recommend this process, but it was cheap, easily removed/changed, and easy to experiment with...and it helped in the end.

[Melt in the Sun]

I also have a Schatten HFN (active v-t) in my X20 and love it. I know its spotlight time at AGF has passed, but I wouldn't hesitate to do another.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by jricc

Try a thin business card thickness strip under the A,D,G strings. It does 2 things, it increases pressure to ust for those strings and decreases the pressure to the E,B, E strings. You may have to try it a couple of times, if the business card is too thick, maybe a piece of paper. It's not perfect, but it has worked for me.
Good luck.

Originally Posted by mbroz

Scott - I had a similar problem with my X7 (though not as bad as it appears you are having) and I used "foil" trick, but to be specific, foil tape (typically used for AC ducting) stuck to the bottom of the saddle under the strings that were too quiet. I used the foil tape because it because it's easy to keep it in place, thin, sticky, and easy to trim so it was only on the bottom of the saddle and not on the sides, etc.

Thanks for these two suggestions. When the one poster somewhere above said something about the 'foil under the bridge' hack I assumed he meant under the saddle and I started to visualize how this might work. We have one more gig today (no amplification) so probably tomorrow I'll spend a bit of time trying this out. A temporary fix would be welcome since the soon-to-be-released (later this year, apparently - sigh) LR Baggs HiFi Duet was at the top of my list. I'll post back my results after I give it a go. I've used the thin slice of credit card to raise a saddle after removing a UST and it worked fine.

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

Scott as you know many people complain about the the HFN not having enough bass and too much treble. That would work in your favour, also the ability to use putty for the install. FWIW I have the HFN in two guitars and love the tone. One guitar is very balanced, good bass, the other I need to crank the bass up a bit, no big deal. Good luck with everything

I tried the HFN passive in a guitar some time back and didn't have good results with it. I seem to remember it being very mid-rangy and boxy but that might work with the X7. It's relatively inexpensive but best is that it's easy to install, reposition as needed and remove using the putty option. If the above tape/card strip trick doesn't work well enough then I might just give one of these a try since the HiFi Duet is not due out until this summer.

[Earl49]

Scott, I appreciate your struggles. No pickup system is perfect, and it's too bad that you cannot buy the Cole Clark p/u that you like to add to other guitars. Maybe they are missing a market opportunity? It seems like your diagnosis of an uneven saddle slot may be correct. The foil trick seems like a viable option under certain strings.

I once watched a luthier (not a tech) fit the bottom of the saddle to the new replacement bridge he had put on my Martin. He would file certain spots on the bottom of the new saddle under specific strings to equalize the pressure, and did that a half dozen times until he was satisfied with the balance. This was a Fishman Matrix Natural II UST that came in my 1990 J40.

[Aspiring]

I like how the Ultratonic install in my X20 turned out. I found the HFN artist I put in my x7 nylon to sound ok but the level is super low even with the end pin gain cranked up.

The Ultratonic has better feedback resistance than the HFN but not as good as a ust.

I did get advice from James when installing to out the feedback sensor in a different location and not on the bridge plate.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Scott, I appreciate your struggles. No pickup system is perfect, and it's too bad that you cannot buy the Cole Clark p/u that you like to add to other guitars. Maybe they are missing a market opportunity? It seems like your diagnosis of an uneven saddle slot may be correct. The foil trick seems like a viable option under certain strings.

I once watched a luthier (not a tech) fit the bottom of the saddle to the new replacement bridge he had put on my Martin. He would file certain spots on the bottom of the new saddle under specific strings to equalize the pressure, and did that a half dozen times until he was satisfied with the balance. This was a Fishman Matrix Natural II UST that came in my 1990 J40.

Actually, you CAN now buy a Cole Clark pickup system (or a close approximation, at least) so there is that. But it involves a lot of cutting of big holes in the guitar and then with the offset soundhole it can be a challenge to get everything in there. I actually thought about putting in the Anthem StagePro that I had in there but again, cutting that big hole...

Anyway, for those following this thread, I have had a bit of a breakthrough. I took the new saddle off and checked the bottom (of the saddle) and it was wicked concave. So the middle strings area was showing light on a flat surface. No wonder I was having the issue. I'm not sure why I didn't check that after I got the new saddle - duh! So the first thing I did was to sand that down flat and check. It was a bit better but the middle strings were still quiet so I added foil tape to the A, D & G string areas and that helped a bit. I pulled the saddle again and added another piece of foil tape to just the A string and now the tone is very even low E through B. The high E is a little hot but I don't mind that.

So now for the moment at least I have a serviceable pickup system should I want to amplify at some point which I'm sure I will. One thing is for certain - I am now an expert at working with the Emerald pinless bridge system having removed/installed the strings at least a dozen times in just a few days! And now that I have found the best way to do that, it's actually pretty easy to do and I like it. Go figure. Time will also tell whether or not I decide to actually just keep this pickup system or try something else. I'll know after I play a few gigs and/or open mics amplified. I'm still liking the look of that new LR Baggs HiFi Duet coming later this year. We'll see.

Thanks to all for the feedback/suggestions, especially that foil tape idea. This is also the first time I've delved into working on a saddle so that was neat to learn how to do - very easy, btw. I plan to do a 'deep dive' thread/post on the X7 in a week or so after I play a few more shows and open mics. I've learned a lot and continue to REALLY enjoy this X7. The small size and comfortable ergonomics, the short scale, the imperviousness to the elements of carbon fiber AND the awesome and cool look of the guitar makes it a joy to carry around and play.

[Earl49]

Glad it got worked out, Scott. Now that you have achieved even tone from the p/u an outboard preamp might help with final tone shaping. I'd try that before abandoning the existing p/u system outright. Any under-saddle transducer is very sensitive to down pressure.

I'm curious about the X7 V3 larger compared to our older, smaller X7's with the smaller forward-facing soundhole (V2). Dimensionally the new X7 is about halfway between the old X7 and an X20 and according to reports here, the volume and tone are in between too. I'm not curious enough to make a purchase, but still interested. Inquiring minds and all that....

[jricc]

That's great it worked out for you Scott.