Low-cost options for casual open mics?

[Ralph124C41]

I may go to some local open mics. Right now I have three guitars with some sort of pickups.

I have a Martin X1-DE with the stock pickup. But this guitar has the wider nut width which is uncomfortable for me to play.

I have a Esteban American Legacy which ... works. (But is a scarred veteran, the true definition of a "beater" guitar.)

I have an Alvarez in which I jury-rigged a Fishman Pro-Neo-D01 pickup. I just took the output cable and hollowed out the end plug (very, very badly) and connected the cord. It looks like it may fall out but it works ... as long as I don't jostle it. However it has no controls and being a passive pickup the volume seems less. But I do have a Behringer audio interface that allows me to increase the volume ... but it's not handy.

However this is for an open mic in which I will be playing for 15 minute sets through the venue's cheap basic speakers. And a "sound guy" or woman will be setting me up.

My luthier buddy says if I provide him a pickup he will install it. He recommends the Matrix Infinity VT. I've read reviews here and they seem a bit mixed. I would have it installed in my 2006 Epiphone Masterbilt AJ500MNS.

My gosh I'm being wordy. So will the Infinity VT be OK for my modest means? Is there a cheaper alternative? The Infinity is about $200 and I just don't want to pay even that really for an occasional 15 minutes of gig time.

If you are still reading this, thanks for your patience and I hope, suggestions.

[Methos1979]

Lowest cost would be to have them mic your guitar, assuming they have the ability to do that. Cost to you is zero. Second low-cost option is to get an inexpensive soundhole pickup and just run the cable out of the soundhole. I'm always amazed at how great many guitars sound at open mics that are the cheapest, most unappealing guitars out there. At a recent open mic a guy came off the stage after performing with a guitar I didn't recognise that sounded fantastic. I went up to him to ask him what it was and he said it was a Fender that he picked up at a yard sale for $50. Sounded better than all the Gibson's and Martin's that were on the stage that night. Proof that when it comes to amplifying guitars, more expensive does not necessarily translate to better sound.

[Rudy4]

You may be way-over-complicating the issue. Check the venues, many "open mics" are exactly that. They have a few mics on stands and give you one for your guitar and one for your vocal. They may not even offer the "plugging in" of your guitar.

The sound hole pickup you have might be a good option since it costs you nothing other than possibly putting on a new end.

If you still want a low cost option then you might consider the very popular K&K Pure Mini pickup (around $100) or the knock off JJB that sells for half that. They will sound OK being plugged directly into a PA, certainly good enough for a quick open mic session.

Do the open mics and then you can upgrade to an internal pickup if you choose to keep doing them.

K&K Pure Mini (and JJB pickup) installation tips

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Lowest cost would be to have them mic your guitar, assuming they have the ability to do that. Cost to you is zero. Second low-cost option is to get an inexpensive soundhole pickup and just run the cable out of the soundhole. I'm always amazed at how great many guitars sound at open mics that are the cheapest, most unappealing guitars out there. At a recent open mic a guy came off the stage after performing with a guitar I didn't recognise that sounded fantastic. I went up to him to ask him what it was and he said it was a Fender that he picked up at a yard sale for $50. Sounded better than all the Gibson's and Martin's that were on the stage that night. Proof that when it comes to amplifying guitars, more expensive does not necessarily translate to better sound.

Thanks. While the open mic organizers tell me it's "possible" to mic my guitar I've never seen anybody else do that so I would feel sort of being the outlaw oddball ... plus I don't know how good it would sound.

The soundhole pickup option would be fine and essentially that is what I have done on my Alvarez. I do miss having a control onboard for volume and tone. I have seen some third-party devices that claim to offer such controls but I don't know how well they perform. I was thinking I could use my Alvarez and then connect it to the Behringer unit and put it on a stand or stool so I can adjust it on the fly ... and then connect it to the venue's P.A. system.

My Neo is a single coil type. Maybe I could add a Neo humbucker type?

[Mandobart]

For a solo open mic slot all that's really needed is a mic. Maybe two - one for vocals and one for the guitar. Usually the host/venue provides them.

I've used removable soundhole pickups (never tried Jerry-rigging the output cable as you've described though!) I would ditch the cobbled together cable you have on yours. If it's ok until you "jostle" it - you know it's gonna fail at an open mic when nerves kick in.

I've been using JJB pickups in most of my instruments for over 15 years. They work great in my fiddles, ukulele, mandolins, banjos, upright bass and all my guitars. $50. With any passive piezoelectric pickup for open mic use you should also get an external preamp or DI, since the house system you'll be plugging into is usually an unknown variable. That's going to add some expense of course. Used Redeye's show up here on the classifieds fairly frequently. They work great and are simple to use.

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Thanks. While the open mic organizers tell me it's "possible" to mic my guitar I've never seen anybody else do that so I would feel sort of being the outlaw oddball ... plus I don't know how good it would sound.

The soundhole pickup option would be fine and essentially that is what I have done on my Alvarez. I do miss having a control onboard for volume and tone. I have seen some third-party devices that claim to offer such controls but I don't know how well they perform. I was thinking I could use my Alvarez and then connect it to the Behringer unit and put it on a stand or stool so I can adjust it on the fly ... and then connect it to the venue's P.A. system.

My Neo is a single coil type. Maybe I could add a Neo humbucker type?

You don't know how good any of these options will sound for a particular guitar in a particular venue until you go do it. You can get an idea at home if you have an amp.

Don't worry about "adjusting on-the-fly" for your first open mic. You're playing for 15 minutes. It's kind of a common rookie mistake to waste half your time slot fiddling with sound settings. Let the host/sound person do their job.

But for gigs where I've wanted to tweak volume or eq between songs I've used the belt clip mounted K&K Pure preamp.

[Robin, Wales]

As has been said, just mic' the guitar.

The "trick" is to sing about 6" to 9" away from the vocal mic', and the same for the guitar mic' (pointed around the 12th to 14th fret - not at the sound hole). It is easy to get the right balance then. Balance is more important than the overall volume. If you get too close to the vocal mic' then it gets difficult to balance the guitar.

[L20A]

The biggest sound critic for a show is the performer.
We want the best possible sound for our guitars.

The truth is that it really doesn't matter!
The audience doesn't care what pickup you are using.
They just want to hear music.

Use which ever guitar you are most comfortable playing and let the sound person dial you in. Don't waste any of your 15 minutes with sound set up.

If you are looking to install a new pickup in one of your guitars, I will agree with going the K&K or JJB direction.

My K&K is actually a loud pickup.
I do have a DI box that doubles as a pre amp if needed, but most of the time, I just plug in and go.

[keith.rogers]

Around here, the majority of open mics are in places that are not listening rooms, and using a mic only works if you're on last and the room is quiet. At regular crowd/volume levels, a mic simply would not be able to keep the guitar at a level that could be heard without feeding back. (Some open mics will suggest you use someone else's guitar, if yours doesn't have a pickup.)

A friend has the Matrix VT in his Taylor (replaced the ES1 some time back), and it sounds fine. Yes, there's a bit of that piezo/UST sizzle, but it suits his style and nobody ever says anything except how good he sounds. (Which actually means how well he *plays*....)

Looking at passive pickups of the SBT (Sound-Board Transducer) types, the K&K or JJB models are popular, but you seem to think you'll need some controls, based on your comment about your guitar with the sound-hole pickup. For those [controls], you'd need an external preamp, which will add to the cost, possibly significantly. (FD, I do have a JJB in one guitar, but it's strictly a backup. It has lots of output, and I don't pack a preamp, but the crowd could care less, IME.)

Because there's a wide variance around here as to what you might be plugging into, I prefer an active pickup system, even with the disadvantage of maybe an annual battery replacement. And, honestly, I very rarely touch the controls on my guitar, and just ask the person running the open mic/PA to adjust something if it sounds bad enough I know it will bother me. Inserting your own preamp may or may not be welcome at every place - just depends. And, even adjusting your own volume or tone once you start your set can annoy some folks (i.e., the host), especially if you change something on your end and feedback results. If the venue is busy, the easier you make the host's life, the happier they'll be.

[Mobilemike]

K&K pure mini costs a little over $100, sounds great, and is simple to use.

[jmhill]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

So will the Infinity VT be OK for my modest means? Is there a cheaper alternative? The Infinity is about $200 and I just don't want to pay even that really for an occasional 15 minutes of gig time.

If you are still reading this, thanks for your patience and I hope, suggestions.

I think the pickups you have now are sufficient for your purposes.

Instead of another pickup, maybe a better preamp or EQ pedal would help shape your tone a bit better? This would at least give you some more control than just plugging in.

If you are dead set on a new pickup, I +1 the K&K mini. 100$ great pickup, just needs a good preamp since it is passive.

Cheers

[Charlie Bernstein]

I just Googled the Matrix Infinity VT. It looks like a bad dream. The videos aren't impressive, either. Do you want to fiddle with knobs and batteries or play guitar? Better: Get a passive pickup for you Epiphone. A folk guitar doesn't need controls.

The K&K Pure Mini is the most popular passive pickup, for good reason. JJB has a similar pickup that costs much less, a lots of players say it sounds just as good.

There are also lots of good passive soundhole pickups. They have two advantages: You can pop them in and out yourself instead of sending them in to the shop, and you can move them from one guitar to another.

And you don't need a preamp for an open mic. Or want one: Most open-mic MCs hate preamps or any other pedals or gear between the guitars and the PA. They're timesucks, and if there's one thing MCs hate, it's a timesuck. They just want you to plug and play. Most will just hand you a cable that's already plugged in. Don't annoy your MC by pulling out a preamp. Leave the Berrringer at home.

Bottom line: I'd put a passive pickup in the Epiphone and sell the other guitars.

[Ralph124C41]

I've looked into the K&K Pure Mini and it seems interesting. It's something I THINK even I can install but I may have my luthier buddy try that, especially or at least drilling the output hole. I did that on my Alvarez AD710 and ... it was not good. Not good at all.

Thanks for your comments but I'm getting confused. Some say just get a better preamp than my Behringer and keep what I have (or get the Mini). Others say to let the venue sound person adjust my sound. As I said at the open mics I go to there are either no "true" sound person or somebody who just does a mediocre job ... but as others have said it's an open mic and you can't expect a studio-level performance.

I would like to look into installing either the Mini or the cheaper alternative.

Btw, I just gave up on my hobbled-together Alvarez with the Neo soundhole pickup. As others said it was I think robbing the guitar of some of the resonance when I played it unamplified so I just disconnected the cord inside and so now it's back to where I can put it the soundhole if needed and take it out.

As for the Behringer unit I mainly use it to increase the volume and cut some of the feedback or hum. I do have an EQ pedal I could also use.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I've looked into the K&K Pure Mini and it seems interesting. It's something I THINK even I can install but I may have my luthier buddy try that, especially or at least drilling the output hole. I did that on my Alvarez AD710 and ... it was not good. Not good at all.

Thanks for your comments but I'm getting confused. Some say just get a better preamp than my Behringer and keep what I have (or get the Mini). Others say to let the venue sound person adjust my sound. As I said at the open mics I go to there are either no "true" sound person or somebody who just does a mediocre job ... but as others have said it's an open mic and you can't expect a studio-level performance.

I would like to look into installing either the Mini or the cheaper alternative.

Btw, I just gave up on my hobbled-together Alvarez with the Neo soundhole pickup. As others said it was I think robbing the guitar of some of the resonance when I played it unamplified so I just disconnected the cord inside and so now it's back to where I can put it the soundhole if needed and take it out.

As for the Behringer unit I mainly use it to increase the volume and cut some of the feedback or hum. I do have an EQ pedal I could also use.

From the installation tips I linked:

"Fine point #3.

I glue in a short section of dowel where an existing end pin hole is. It doesn't need to be long, 1/4" long is sufficient. I then apply blue low tack painter's masking tape over the entire end pin area and use the glued in dowel to center a 1/2" Forstner bit. Once the bit establishes a hole it no longer needs a center, so the 1/2" hole itself serves as a guide for the bit. The tape is just added insurance against clumsiness until the hole is established.

Yes, a 31/64" bit is fine, but many folks will be buying a single bit for drilling the jack hole and this one is sometimes difficult to locate. A 1/2" Forstner bit is usually available at all the big box stores and is much kinder when the bit exits the inside of the tail block. Common twist drills like the aforementioned 31/64" can be brutal to the exit area of the hole. It that really what you want to subject your baby to? Use the 1/2" Forstner and go SLOW when you get to the other side of the tail block.

The 1/2" hole is slightly oversize, but since many will drill the hole not perfectly 90 degrees to the tail block it allows the jack to center in the hole even if it's a few degrees off kilter. This makes for a more secure installation of the jack with less concern about the nut coming loose from contacting the surfaces slightly askew, which can happen if you're shooting for a really tight hole."

Fine to have someone do it, but it's not particularly difficult if you use a reasonable amount of care.

More and more guitars (like Larrivee, Taylor, and others) are shipping with the removable end pin that exposes a hole correctly sized for a Switchcraft strap jack type output jack.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Thanks. While the open mic organizers tell me it's "possible" to mic my guitar I've never seen anybody else do that so I would feel sort of being the outlaw oddball ... plus I don't know how good it would sound.

The soundhole pickup option would be fine and essentially that is what I have done on my Alvarez. I do miss having a control onboard for volume and tone. I have seen some third-party devices that claim to offer such controls but I don't know how well they perform. I was thinking I could use my Alvarez and then connect it to the Behringer unit and put it on a stand or stool so I can adjust it on the fly ... and then connect it to the venue's P.A. system.

My Neo is a single coil type. Maybe I could add a Neo humbucker type?

Hi Ralph…
It's easy to tell…just use their mic once and see how the listeners respond/react.

If they are going to their phones or chatting louder than you play (while you play), then go to a pickup.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

From the installation tips I linked:

"Fine point #3.

I glue in a short section of dowel where an existing end pin hole is. It doesn't need to be long, 1/4" long is sufficient. I then apply blue low tack painter's masking tape over the entire end pin area and use the glued in dowel to center a 1/2" Forstner bit. Once the bit establishes a hole it no longer needs a center, so the 1/2" hole itself serves as a guide for the bit. The tape is just added insurance against clumsiness until the hole is established.

Yes, a 31/64" bit is fine, but many folks will be buying a single bit for drilling the jack hole and this one is sometimes difficult to locate. A 1/2" Forstner bit is usually available at all the big box stores and is much kinder when the bit exits the inside of the tail block. Common twist drills like the aforementioned 31/64" can be brutal to the exit area of the hole. It that really what you want to subject your baby to? Use the 1/2" Forstner and go SLOW when you get to the other side of the tail block.

The 1/2" hole is slightly oversize, but since many will drill the hole not perfectly 90 degrees to the tail block it allows the jack to center in the hole even if it's a few degrees off kilter. This makes for a more secure installation of the jack with less concern about the nut coming loose from contacting the surfaces slightly askew, which can happen if you're shooting for a really tight hole."

Fine to have someone do it, but it's not particularly difficult if you use a reasonable amount of care.

More and more guitars (like Larrivee, Taylor, and others) are shipping with the removable end pin that exposes a hole correctly sized for a Switchcraft strap jack type output jack.

For sme reason I used a 5/8 inch bit I think so the whole end unit slid right through with no way to stop it. So I fashioned a "washer" from a large triangle guitar pick and somehow got it to fit. I then taped over the end with some blue painter's tape. Surprisingly it held ... but was ugly and of course prone to fall out when I needed it most.