Is this run-out, or something different?

[BoneDigger]

This may have been discussed before, and if so, feel free to just point me to the other thread. On the below video, is this D45 Modern Deluxe suffering from run-out, or is this a desirable feature of some kind on a basically $11,000 guitar? In a recent thread, the poster was concerned about an Epiphone that wasn't nearly as obvious as this. So, is this designed this way or is it something else?

[Wade Hampton]

It looks like run out to me.


whm

[OddManOut]

It's runout. Turn the guitar 180 degrees and the treble side will be lighter than the bass. Runout on a D-45? Interesting... :/

[Bowie]

"Suffering" might not be the best choice of words, IMO. It has run-out. You you are working with bare wood, you can't always tell when it's going to appear. The problem with people nit picking about run-out (and, I am one of those nit-pickers) is that their other option is to have lower quality woods. Sure, we all want perfect cosmetics, perfect density and stiffness, etc. But, few pieces have everything.

I would think they'd reserve the best cosmetic pieces for the high-dollar guitars but, it doesn't seem to really matter. I've seen more expensive Martins than this with run-out. A lot of them. But, I've never seen a guitar go unsold for a long time because of run-out. So, I guess that's why Martin doesn't care; there's enough buyers that don't care. And, as someone who likes when companies use stripey ebony, bearclaw spruce, etc, I think that's a good thing.

[Teherie]

My initial comment about this video is the fact that the bulk of the time was spent talking about the guitar rather than actually playing it.

As the owner of three Martins, two stock standard models (D and OM) and one custom model (000 12 fret), a guitar with runout would only come home with me if the price was right. My Martin catalog from the mid 70s featured a photo of a D45 with runout that was photographed in front of a vintage Rolls Royce. I’m sure someone bought that guitar and I’d love to see what it looks and sounds like today.

Over the years, Martin has designed and offered some unusual and quirky models that have drawn both praise and criticism/ire but the company still manages to continue growing. In 1996, Martin introduced the MTV-1 dreadnought with a back that was half rosewood (Bass side) and half mahogany (treble side). I’ve also seen D35 models with a center back wedge made of a contrasting wood (I.E. maple, koa or mahogany). My hearing is not trained enough to guarantee that I could distinguish the difference in tone.

FWIW, I passed on buying a pair of earth shoes, a set of lawn darts and a pet rock back in the 70s but I still have the D35 I purchased new in early 1977.

[Sadie-f]

I don't worry too much about runout, my Santa Cruz has runout within each book matched half of the top .. Why does this happen? The tree in question had more spiral than most, it's a part of the structure of a tree, and you can't cut something with both cw and ccw twist in the grain without runout.

I think it looks spectacular, and the guitar sounds even better than that.

Really bad runout can affect adhesion of the bridge, and I'm not a fan of how bridges are mounted, however in the case of the -45md in question, I'd guess the torrefaction is making the runout more visually prominent?

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Sadie-f

I don't worry too much about runout, my Santa Cruz has runout within each book matched half of the top .. Why does this happen? The tree in question had more spiral than most, it's a part of the structure of a tree, and you can't cut something with both cw and ccw twist in the grain without runout.

I think it looks spectacular, and the guitar sounds even better than that.

Really bad runout can affect adhesion of the bridge, and I'm not a fan of how bridges are mounted, however in the case of the -45md in question, I'd guess the torrefaction is making the runout more visually prominent?

Interesting that you would say that. More often than not, torrefaction tends to darken (“toast”?) the wood, and builders often put the darker edge along the center seam, so I find that it tends to hide runout, if anything. I was going to comment that this is one of the most even-tinted torrefied tops I’ve seen, although the tops on Modern Deluxes tend to have pretty even tint compared to many other guitars with torrefied tops.

I know that it’s just a recoding, but the guitar sounds great.

[abn556]

I have seen this phenomenon on multiple guitar related web sites over the past 30 years. Some people invariably start obsessing about aesthetics and nit picking every little detail about guitars in search of some perfect instrument that will meet their standards - which are often totally arbitrary. I wonder how often they actually play. It also makes me wonder how much of the joy of owning a nice guitar is taken away by their fear they will find that one little thing that will make them move the guitar. It seems some feel that anything less than perfect is not good enough for them. It starts to feel more like OCD than a hobby.

Here is the main thing - don’t let people on forums convince you that your guitar is somehow less than theirs because of some aesthetic thing. If its a structural flaw that inhibits tone or playability then I am willing to listen. If not, keep in mind that some people derive pleasure in denigrating others. Planting doubt in your mind is one of their main tools.

[TheGITM]

I have absolutely zero concern about the appearance of runout. It has no impact on the quality of the guitar.

[The Bard Rocks]

A quick glance tell me this is runout. That would be reason for me to avoid such a purchase, but to be honest, that's me reacting to something which is only visual. Runout should not affect the sound or playability one iota.

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

I have absolutely zero concern about the appearance of runout. It has no impact on the quality of the guitar.

I agree. If it wasn't for online forums, no one would even give it a second thought.

[RP]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

A quick glance tell me this is runout. That would be reason for me to avoid such a purchase, but to be honest, that's me reacting to something which is only visual...

I agree. It may be strictly visual and overly picky, but I adhere to the wisdom of Popeye...

[DrunkUncles]

The look of that top is NOT appealing to me.

My HD-28E looks 1000x better and at a fraction of the cost.

[jaymarsch]

I’m another guitar owner here that doesn’t mind runout. As wood ages, it can develop different streaks and changes in color anyway.
Of course all of these things are subjective, runout is similar to how folks feel about Bearclaw on a top. Some people love it, some others dislike it, and then there are those, like me, who don’t care one way or the other. Runout can be tricky to predict because if it is minimal, it might not become very noticeable to the owner until the top ages and darkens a bit.
Best,
Jayne

[abn556]

I never heard the term run out after playing for 45 years until I came to this forum. Admittedly I was primarily an electric player my whole life. As anal as some electric players are about their flame tops, you would think run out would be discussed, but no. Perhaps it only happens on spruce?