Fretboard Conditioning

[abn556]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Still incorrect [if you want to argue the existence of a need, the burden is on you, you can't tell someone else to prove a need doesn't exist], but I'll play along. I encountered many instruments that had not had their ebony boards treated (some decades old) and they showed no ill effects. I also found that it was accumulating and drying into a goop when treated often (which is a negative). I then found my observations were similar to what respected luthiers, like Frank Ford, were saying about the subject.

I am not trying to bash the product in this thread. I was simply sharing my experience on the subject before this thread became an advertisement.

So just to clarify - you never once ever picked up guitar that hung on a rack at a store for years and noticed how dry the fingerboard was?

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by dneal

While I admire your continued attempt to shift the burden, this was you:



I incur no burden to prove the opposite in order for your claim to stand.

I already granted you the proof you asked for and, instead of offering a counterpoint (which I suspected you wouldn't), you shifted to semantic games. It seems you just want to argue and I'm not going to go down that trail with you.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by RADJJD

Microsoft Bing CoPilot says:

For Ebony instruments,

Clarinet bore oil is hydrophobic, meaning it repels moisture.
When the wood absorbs moisture, it can swell and eventually crack. Bore oil acts as a protective barrier against this....

I think Bing's AI struck out.

Wood cracks when it dries out.

Not the other way around.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by abn556

So just to clarify - you never once ever picked up guitar that hung on a rack at a store for years and noticed how dry the fingerboard was?

Incorrect. From my first post, "If you find your ebony looking unsightly then it has value on that level."

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Bowie

I already granted you the proof you asked for and, instead of offering a counterpoint (which I suspected you wouldn't), you shifted to semantic games. It seems you just want to argue and I'm not going to go down that trail with you.

I didn't ask you for any proof. I pointed out that you have a burden of proof, because you tried to shift it to someone else.

It's not a "semantic game". It's how burdens of proof actually work.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Incorrect. From my first post, "If you find your ebony looking unsightly then it has value on that level."

I’m trying to get you to answer if you acknowledge that fingerboards can be dry, which you seemed to be doubting earlier. Looking unsightly is not the same thing as being clean, but dry. Gibson’s master luthier has a video on their Gibson TV youtube channel where he goes over the negative effects of letting fingerboards get too dry. Do you dispute this?

[TomB'sox]

It is amazing what we can argue about. It appears a lot
of the last two pages is arguing about how to argue and I suggest y'all just stop please. Let it go.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by abn556

I’m trying to get you to answer if you acknowledge that fingerboards can be dry, which you seemed to be doubting earlier. Looking unsightly is not the same thing as being clean, but dry. Gibson’s master luthier has a video on their Gibson TV youtube channel where he goes over the negative effects of letting fingerboards get too dry. Do you dispute this?

I don't want to argue but I'm ok sharing thoughts so we all can learn.
Your top and back woods are also "dry". They are also only covered on one side, like the fingerboard. Some of these woods are prone to cracking, like ebony, but it's not because they need to be fed. I'm meticulous about the care of my instruments, more than anyone else I know, so I'm always interested in learning more about what I can do to protect them.

[TheGITM]

I think that the most important factor for preserving wood is proper humidity. All wood will move a bit over time, no matter how well-dried or aged it is. Swelling and contracting is the enemy. Too much, too rapidly, too bad...

There is a lot of debate about whether or not, or how much, applying a coat of 'something' will aid in wood preservation. Regardless or whether or not it does, the cleaning and 'oiling' of the wood helps preserve it by just the cleaning properties, and it helps brings out the beauty of the wood. Those are reason enough for me to want to treat the fingerboards.

Keep your guitars in an environment with proper humidity and away from extreme changes, and keep them clean and looking as good as they can look. It's simple, really, isn't it?

[dneal]

There seems to be some conflation between moisture and dealing with untreated wood on a fretboard.

Certainly too much or too little moisture (or swings in moisture) is harmful. Cracks in the body, fretboards shrinking and causing fret "sprout", etc...

That's not really the topic though. The issue is whether or not to treat an unfinished fretboard.

No, it doesn't "need" treatment; and dead wood doesn't need "fed". It will however absorb oil and sweat, and accumulate a buildup of dirt, grime, dead skin cells and whatnot - all that same stuff you see accumulated on a computer mouse or keyboard. All that stuff you use a damp rag to wipe off the body or neck. All that same stuff that accumulates on and deadens strings.

An untreated fretboard doesn't have magical properties that renders it impervious.

If you don't mind that gunk, don't worry about it. If you do, then you do need to add a layer of protection - just like the body of the guitar has, and just like wood furniture has.

The question becomes: what to use? You could apply all sorts of varnishes, shellacs, polyurethanes or oils. They will wear off eventually (e.g.: a maple fretboard on a Fender) or evaporate. Sanding and revarnishing isn't practical. Oil is more easily reapplied. The question then becomes: which oil? Some have polymers that remain once the oil evaporates, and they build up (e.g.: Tung, linseed, "Danish", etc...), which potentially creates future issues. Some don't (e.g.: mineral oil), which means it needs periodic reapplication.

[RADJJD]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

I also agree that "petroleum distillates" is a broad category of chemicals and products. When I dug into this years ago I found that Old English and many other "lemon oil" wood care products used Naphtha as a "petroleum distillate" solvent but its not specified on their newest MSDS sheets.

BTW the lemon scent you mentioned above does not come from citrus lemons but rather from lemon grass.

The label on Norton Sharpening oil, which I use to hand sharpen two sets or German (Henkel) & Japanese (Katana) chef knives on special stones, says it is "Food Grade" mineral oil, also states that it contains petroleum distillate.

Apparently, some mineral oils are not "food safe" & warned not to be used on cutting boards or knives.

Just sayin' ; Not taking sides.

[RADJJD]

Originally Posted by dneal

There seems to be some conflation between moisture and dealing with untreated wood on a fretboard.

Certainly too much or too little moisture (or swings in moisture) is harmful. Cracks in the body, fretboards shrinking and causing fret "sprout", etc...

That's not really the topic though. The issue is whether or not to treat an unfinished fretboard.

No, it doesn't "need" treatment; and dead wood doesn't need "fed". It will however absorb oil and sweat, and accumulate a buildup of dirt, grime, dead skin cells and whatnot - all that same stuff you see accumulated on a computer mouse or keyboard. All that stuff you use a damp rag to wipe off the body or neck. All that same stuff that accumulates on and deadens strings.

An untreated fretboard doesn't have magical properties that renders it impervious.

If you don't mind that gunk, don't worry about it. If you do, then you do need to add a layer of protection - just like the body of the guitar has, and just like wood furniture has.

The question becomes: what to use? You could apply all sorts of varnishes, shellacs, polyurethanes or oils. They will wear off eventually (e.g.: a maple fretboard on a Fender) or evaporate. Sanding and revarnishing isn't practical. Oil is more easily reapplied. The question then becomes: which oil? Some have polymers that remain once the oil evaporates, and they build up (e.g.: Tung, linseed, "Danish", etc...), which potentially creates future issues. Some don't (e.g.: mineral oil), which means it needs periodic reapplication.

Having spent decades as a Pro Carpenter, building, repairing, & restoring houses, garages, sheds, barns, decks, fencing, et., there is no doubt that unprotected wood will deteriorate faster when exposed to moisture, dryness, & other conditions i.e fungus, mold, organic substances, direct exposure to sunlight & wind.

Treating fencing & decking is a no brainer; even cedar only has its life extended if it is treated.

When wood is untreated, even Ebony & Rosewood, will absorb ambient moisture, dry out & crack it isn't protected, albeit at a much slower rate than soft woods.

That is why humidors exist; BTW, I don't have one & my 92 year old acoustic has suffered for it. When I fully restored this Arch top in 2011, repairs included body & back cracks (some significant) in the Honduran Mahogany. The Mahogany arm is still solid but I had to do serious repairs to the slotted headstock which had dried out & cracked in multiple places. The cycle of being exposed to moisture & then drying out is always the culprit.

Again, my Ebony fretboard shows no signs of cracks or separations, but I do sanitize (alcohol) & treat it with a few drops of Bore oil (one of many options) every time I restring it. In between, I just wipe it with a damp cloth, along with the strings, body, & pickguard.

Just sayin', not taking sides.

I'm a player, not a collector.

[Muffinhead]

Is it true that I do not have to condition richlite fretboards?

[abn556]

Originally Posted by Muffinhead

Is it true that I do not have to condition richlite fretboards?

Well its not wood so probably not. I’m no expert of richlite though. I don’t have a guitar with that kind of board on it.

[koko61]

I usually moisturize my fretboards with lemon oil, but my luthier sometimes uses paraffin better.