Fretboard Conditioning

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

Yes, we do have an endless stream of amusing “I did X and it made a huge difference in tone!” or the charmingly human “I did Y and it made a subtle but definitely noticeable difference in tone” hopeful variant.

But this doesn’t seem to be that. People on this topic are talking about appearance. And the photos of the results do look impressive. Yes, there is a little bit of an undercurrent of taking proper care of the wood’s health, but mostly it’s about just making the fretboard look nice.

Nobody has mentioned linseed oil or teak oil. When I started playing guitar in the ‘70s I remember being advised to treat the fingerboard with boiled linseed oil. I think I might still have a tin of it somewhere.

Hi Steve,
The problem with using linseed oil is that it will speed up the tarnish process on frets and it gets this weird green colored grunge build up alongside of the frets. Don't ask how I know this fact ...

[Sadie-f]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Hi Steve,
The problem with using linseed oil is that it will speed up the tarnish process on frets and it gets this weird green colored grunge build up alongside of the frets. Don't ask how I know this fact ...

Enough said there, do you have thoughts on tung oil? - I've used it for nearly bare necks, have been thinking about it for fret boards.

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by Sadie-f

Enough said there, do you have thoughts on tung oil? - I've used it for nearly bare necks, have been thinking about it for fret boards.

I've used tung oil products too, which is often tung nut oil combined with linseed or other phenolic resins and an evaporative carrier solvent, likely naphtha. Problem is these are finishes and will build up on the surface of the wood. As you apply more coats the finish continues to build and thicken. Over time, your finger nails and or string abrasion can scratch finishes and leave unsightly whiteish colored marks that may or may not bother you?

[abn556]

I just tried out the McKnight’s Fretboard Revival on 4 guitars. Three electrics and a 1963 LG-0.

LG-0 before treatmet:

Attachment 107667

LG-0 during treatment - waiting 2 hours per instructions:

IMG_3192.jpg

LG-0 Post cleaning and treatment:

IMG_3203.jpgIMG_3205.jpg

Note that the 61 year old Brazilian board on the LG-0 looks darker than the 2022 ebony board on the 000-18 next to it.

And what did the applicator cotton cloth look like after 4 guitars:

IMG_3199.jpg

Hope this posts in order.

And yes - I put a J-45 pick guard on the LG-0. The original was warping and rattling when I played open chords, so its in the case now.

[abn556]

Some of the other guitars I worked on:

2001 Gibson Historic R0 and 2022 Gibson 1964 SG Reissue:

IMG_3188.jpg

Waiting 2 hours:

IMG_3193.jpg

At the end:

IMG_3196.jpg
IMG_3198.jpg

Observations:

Product goes on smooth and easy. It buffs out nicely and doesn’t leave an oily residue behind. From the applicator rag, its clearly picking up a lot of gunk as you apply it. The balm definitely darkened the fingerboard wood. At the next string change I will get a chance to try it on some more guitars. So far I am pleased. Note that I have been using Bore Doctor clarinet bore oil for years with good results. So the boards were not dry. They were however in need of cleaning.

[Tim McKnight]

Thanks for posting your experience using our Fretboard Revival @abn556 . FWIW, the included applicator is 100% cotton flannel and when its getting dirty and gunked up you can discard and replace it with any old clean cotton cloth or T-shirt material. The ones that I include are 3" square "12 gage shotgun cleaning patches" in every kit. They are my choice and can be purchased at most any sporting goods store.

[RADJJD]

Microsoft Bing CoPilot says:

For Ebony instruments,

Clarinet bore oil is hydrophobic, meaning it repels moisture.
When the wood absorbs moisture, it can swell and eventually crack. Bore oil acts as a protective barrier against this.

Some clarinetists prefer specific types of bore oil made from natural ingredients (like vegetable or nut oils). Others use more general-purpose oils, such as mineral oil.

The Ebony board on my guitar is 92 years old: I've used bore oil on it for 50; no cracks or separations.

I am a player, not a collector.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Thanks for posting your experience using our Fretboard Revival @abn556 . FWIW, the included applicator is 100% cotton flannel and when its getting dirty and gunked up you can discard and replace it with any old clean cotton cloth or T-shirt material. The ones that I include are 3" square "12 gage shotgun cleaning patches" in every kit. They are my choice and can be purchased at most any sporting goods store.

I have bags of gun cleaning patches as one of my other hobbies is shooting. I recognized the patch in your kit. Academy stores sell bags full of shotgun patches for around $10.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Bowie

That's not how it works. The burden of proof is to show why you DO need something. I understand the guy is selling a product and I don't want to attack him or his product. I think there is a valid (cosmetic) reason for using it so I have no problem with the product. Sounds like a great item for those who want to give their boards and bridges a darker look. But, the idea that a fretboard needs nourishment has never been proven to me and I can think of a number of well-respected luthiers (see my Frank Ford quote) who feel they don't need treatment.

If you want to tell me I need to oil my fret boards, when I've owned dozens of guitars over the years that went untreated and none suffered, then you are the one that needs to show some "data and proof" that I did some harm that somehow never manifested. If it's needed then certainly all makers who offer a lifetime warranty must require it, right?

You made an assertion that "I came to realize it's not actually helping the wood in any way". You incur a burden of proof for your assertion. That's actually how it works.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

But it puzzles me that many don't have the same affection for the proper care of bare and untreated wood surfaces such as the fretboard and bridges used on most acoustic guitars today.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

But everyone has the right to their own opinions of how best to care for their personal musical instruments and I respect that.

I agree too.

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Some have mentioned using "Lemon Oil" to treat their fingerboards. This will temporarily add [petroleum distillates] into the wood. I too fell into this trap many years ago. It temporarily makes the wood surfaces look nice and shiny but its only short lived. I would caution you that you may be doing more harm than good with the lemon oil products though. Petroleum distillates will clean the wood but they do so by pulling natural oils out of the wood in the same way that putting Naphtha on your bare skin as it will dry your skin out by pulling natural oils and moisture from your skin. Petroleum distillates rapidly evaporate and you are left with a dryer wood surface than the one you started with.

Anyone that is currently using lemon oil products I would encourage you to dig deeper and read the host of harmful and potentially carcinogenic ingredients that are buried in the MSDS sheet. It warns against skin contact and is potentially fatal if consumed.

https://www.rbnainfo.com/MSDS/US/OLD...US-English.pdf

Your link is for Old English furniture polish, not mineral oil. You mention "petroleum distillates", but that covers everything from road bitumen (i.e.: "tar") to liquified petroleum gas; and is too general to have any meaning with this topic.

There is a difference between oils and spirits. The latter will rapidly dry, and pull the oils out of your skin. The former will leave you with oily fingers.

Mineral oil is food safe, and can be consumed as a laxative. Mineral oil with lemon scent (i.e.: "lemon oil) is still just mineral oil. True lemon oil is a solvent, and shouldn't be used on untreated wood.

I'm not a luthier, but I am a woodworker. Mineral oil, or mineral oil mixed with beeswax, is commonly used for a range of otherwise untreated wood products. Much of the furniture in my house was purchased in Germany, and is treated with mineral oil and beeswax - which requires periodic reapplication.

I also have a John Boos block island in my kitchen. It also requires treatment. Boos "Mystery Oil" is just mineral oil. It's NSF certified. Boos "Mystery Cream" is just mineral oil and beeswax - also NSF certified.

The applications differ, but the principle of protecting untreated wood is the same; whether a fretboard, cutting board, oak table in my dining room or oak desk in my office. They all get mineral oil or mineral oil/beeswax.

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by dneal

Your link is for Old English furniture polish, not mineral oil. You mention "petroleum distillates", but that covers everything from road bitumen (i.e.: "tar") to liquified petroleum gas; and is too general to have any meaning with this topic.

There is a difference between oils and spirits. The latter will rapidly dry, and pull the oils out of your skin. The former will leave you with oily fingers.

Mineral oil is food safe, and can be consumed as a laxative. Mineral oil with lemon scent (i.e.: "lemon oil) is still just mineral oil. True lemon oil is a solvent, and shouldn't be used on untreated wood.

I also agree that "petroleum distillates" is a broad category of chemicals and products. When I dug into this years ago I found that Old English and many other "lemon oil" wood care products used Naphtha as a "petroleum distillate" solvent but its not specified on their newest MSDS sheets.

BTW the lemon scent you mentioned above does not come from citrus lemons but rather from lemon grass.

[phavriluk]

Quite some discussion here. So...what car wax helps the machine to work?

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

I also agree that "petroleum distillates" is a broad category of chemicals and products. When I dug into this years ago I found that Old English and many other "lemon oil" wood care products used Naphtha as a "petroleum distillate" solvent but its not specified on their newest MSDS sheets.

BTW the lemon scent you mentioned above does not come from citrus lemons but rather from lemon grass.

I agree that "lemon oil" is a confusing term, that can mean a lot of things. I wish Dunlop didn't use it on their product label.

Also, for clarity, I didn't say "lemon scent" comes from lemons.

Hazarding a guess, I would assume it's limonene (which can come from a variety of plants). Limonene is a solvent, which would aid cleaning - but I would also assume the ratio is small compared to the mineral oil. A product like Goo-Gone would be the opposite end of the spectrum from Dunlop 65 Ultimate Lemon Oil.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by dneal

You made an assertion that "I came to realize it's not actually helping the wood in any way". You incur a burden of proof for your assertion. That's actually how it works.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

Still incorrect [if you want to argue the existence of a need, the burden is on you, you can't tell someone else to prove a need doesn't exist], but I'll play along. I encountered many instruments that had not had their ebony boards treated (some decades old) and they showed no ill effects. I also found that it was accumulating and drying into a goop when treated often (which is a negative). I then found my observations were similar to what respected luthiers, like Frank Ford, were saying about the subject.

I am not trying to bash the product in this thread. I was simply sharing my experience on the subject before this thread became an advertisement.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Still incorrect [if you want to argue the existence of a need, the burden is on you, you can't tell someone else to prove a need doesn't exist], but I'll play along. I encountered many instruments that had not had their ebony boards treated (some decades old) and they showed no ill effects. I also found that it was accumulating and drying into a goop when treated often (which is a negative). I then found my observations were similar to what respected luthiers, like Frank Ford, were saying about the subject.

I am not trying to bash the product in this thread. I was simply sharing my experience on the subject before this thread became an advertisement.

While I admire your continued attempt to shift the burden, this was you:

Originally Posted by Bowie

I came to realize it's not actually helping the wood in any way...

I incur no burden to prove the opposite in order for your claim to stand.