Perfection or feeling?

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

This isn't directed at you, or Lj, as neither of you actually posed this premise-- but the "proficiency holds us back" concept is dumb guitar player talk, created to help people feel better about not knowing their instrument. It's utter and complete hogwash.

I do think it's possible to be influenced by a "technique is everything" teacher, to the point where your balance of chops vs musicality vs "joy" gets way out of whack. It's easy to notice that that kind of teacher teaches a lot and performs very little.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

They are entertwined.

I agree.

Perfection with no feel is like listening to a computer play. And how to you even get great feel in a song with lousy execution? You need some combination of both for a song or piece to really hang together and appeal to listeners.

- Glenn

[Doug Young]

I think this is one of those misplaced either-or things that's kind of a myth. I'm not sure what's the underlying idea here in this thread, but this tradeoff often comes from the claim that trained musicians can't play with the same emotion that someone who has no training can.

Music is a form of artistic expression. If you aren't producing music that is expressive, with "feeling", then it's not perfect!

if you mean what's better - playing mechanically or playing with feeling?, then the answer is obvious. But playing mechanically without feeling isn't perfect.

A similar question is sometimes worded as "which is better, to have technique or feeling?", which again is a misunderstanding - playing musically, with feeling, requires control over your instrument, or in other words "technique".

[Mr. Jelly]

I think part of this thoughtful question is about people that are so focused on learning to play guitar that they don't seem to "play" the guitar while they are learning it. Some seem to never relax as they are trying to play perfectly. I feel like saying get over and just play.

[thesheep]

This question totally makes sense to me.

I think it is a choice that all musicians have to make, and in fact all artists have to make.

Perhaps it is to do with conscious control.

We can be focussed on getting something technically perfect. Making each note exactly right. If we're recording then there should be no little noises or creaks. If you're in this mode then the smallest little mistake will matter. Do another take.

Or we can just let go a little, relax and let things be. If we can let that control go then the feeling can come through. Maybe the best take is the one with a few creaks and knocks, for example. Because that was the take where the feeling came through best. Can we tolerate the small mistake in order to gain the best feel? I suspect this is true *even* for the best professional musicians.

You can of course keep going, take after take, trying to get the best feel *and* zero mistakes. But sometimes the best feel was the first take, no matter what you do. Then you still have this choice.

If you are a pop producer using a lot of auto-tune, making every sound pristine, then I would say perfection wins. If you are going for a more organic, human connection then feel wins.

I was recently listening to some of the demo versions of Paul Simon's songs from the 1980s, for example Train in the Distance. And struck by how much more I like his demo with the odd little imperfection compared to the perfect, glossy studio production.

With my own music I still battle with this. I do have a really strong drive to make it perfect but I reckon this also stems from lack of confidence and isn't always super helpful.

[Charlie Bernstein]

PS -

There's no such thing as perfection but infinite varieties of feeling.

I predict that that won't help answer the unanswerable.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I think this is one of those misplaced either-or things that's kind of a myth. I'm not sure what's the underlying idea here in this thread, but this tradeoff often comes from the claim that trained musicians can't play with the same emotion that someone who has no training can.

Music is a form of artistic expression. If you aren't producing music that is expressive, with "feeling", then it's not perfect!

if you mean what's better - playing mechanically or playing with feeling?, then the answer is obvious. But playing mechanically without feeling isn't perfect.

A similar question is sometimes worded as "which is better, to have technique or feeling?", which again is a misunderstanding - playing musically, with feeling, requires control over your instrument, or in other words "technique".

100% agree! There are so many overused tropes that try to boil everything down to a binary polar opposite choice - “play by ear OR notation”, “formal training OR learn on your own”, “fingerstyle OR flat pick”, “play with feeling OR play with precision”….

Real life (and music) is not digital/binary. Everything exists on an analog spectrum. IMO we can (and should) seek to learn as many techniques and tools as possible. I read music AND I play by ear and improvise. I play finger style AND flat pick fiddle tunes. I play with feeling AND precision.

So much gets treated as either/or here. It feels so arbitrary and artificial to me.

[thesheep]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

100% agree! There are so many overused tropes that try to boil everything down to a binary polar opposite choice - “play by ear OR notation”, “formal training OR learn on your own”, “fingerstyle OR flat pick”, “play with feeling OR play with precision”….

Real life (and music) is not digital/binary. Everything exists on an analog spectrum. IMO we can (and should) seek to learn as many techniques and tools as possible. I read music AND I play by ear and improvise. I play finger style AND flat pick fiddle tunes. I play with feeling AND precision.

So much gets treated as either/or here. It feels so arbitrary and artificial to me.

But the original question was, which do you think is most important. To me that isn't saying that the other one is not important at all, or should not be pursued. It's pretty clear that we should strive for both technical perfection and emotional connection. That's the way I interpreted the question anyway.

Like I said in my post above, I have several times had to choose between 2 takes where one is technically better (no mistakes) and a decent performance, while the other had a slight fluff or maybe slightly less ideal mic position, but was an even better performance in terms of feel. Which creates an interesting dilemma.

EDIT: I just noticed the title of the thread is "Perfection or feeling" which is actually different from the question in the post and in the poll, so I can see that might be why we're all answering slightly different questions

[rick-slo]

IMO an example of perfection achieved by great technical skills combined with sublime expression:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP8SD_pEd60&t=7s

[jaymarsch]

I don't believe that perfection exists but I do think that mastering technical skill to give me a palette of choices to express feeling through my playing is important. It's one of those chicken and egg things. :-)

Best,
Jayne

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by mike o

Which is more important to you and why? No wrong answers. Perfection vs. Feeling

If it's your song perfection needs feeling to be perfect. I assume that technic would be less of a challenge. If you are mimicking someone else's rendition of a song perfection involves technic challenges to achieve someone else's exact phrasing.

[mike o]

Just a little clarification. My question had nothing to do with if you can read music or schooled in music. Being schooled will not stop anyone from developing feel. Totally agree that feel and perfection are intertwined as your musician skills grow.

[Nymuso]

You can sell an imperfect performance with feel, but a perfect performance without feel is soulless.

[thesheep]

Originally Posted by Nymuso

You can sell an imperfect performance with feel, but a perfect performance without feel is soulless.

Although judging by some of the chart music I have heard over the last few years, you can still sell that too