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  #1  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:31 PM
wessman wessman is offline
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Default Ramirez 4N CWE - comments?

Hello,

I plan to buy a Ramirez 4N CWE (C-86 CWE was sick expensive), but would like to hear your comments about it if you have ever played it. Should I get it with electronics or without. I have Rivera Sedona 100 watt head with two Rivera Sedona 112EX cabinets and also 2 pcs of AKG C 4000-B mics.

Thanks for your help.

BR: Klarm Yai
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2009, 06:40 AM
franchelB franchelB is offline
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I haven't played that particular model, but you can't go wrong with the name in classical guitars...Ramirez.
As for electronics, it all depends on how you're planning on using your guitar. Personally, I'd order it WITH the electronics, then using your mics to give it a "fuller" sound plugged in.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2009, 01:28 PM
wessman wessman is offline
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Thanks for your reply, Franche. Could one hear the difference, when played unplugged, if the same guitar is fitted with an onboard electronics and another time it is not fitted with? I suspect that no one could hear the difference....

Many thanks for your help.

BR: Klarm Yai
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2009, 01:54 PM
brian a. brian a. is offline
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From my experience the Ramirez 4cwe (4n cwe) is the same guitar as the 2cwe except for wood upgrades such as solid b/s vs laminated b/s, AAAA cedar top and African ebony fingerboard. Both are technically available with or without the Fishman electronics, but harder to find without.

IMHO, there would not be a significant difference in acoustic tone or sound between an acoustic vs an acoustic/electric model of this guitar.

However, plugged in these sound better through an acoustic amp or PA than they do through an electric guitar amp.
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Old 08-01-2009, 03:25 AM
wessman wessman is offline
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Hi,

They say that Ramirez guitars have a high action, so whatīs the typical action height at 12th fret on Ramirez guitars? Iīm used to play Gibson LP and Fender Strat and Tele, but I also play steel string like Gibson Songwriter, but never had a nylon guitar. So should I buy that Ramirez N4 CWE classical, or Ramirez FL-CWE-P flamenco guitar (just worrying a bit about the action - flamenco one should have lower action)? Would that FL-CWE-P sound good for many kind of songs or just good for flamenco? I couldnīt find a sound clips of Ramirez FL-CWE-P guitar - nor N4 CWE...

Many thanks for your help.

BR: Klarm Yai
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2009, 07:58 AM
Alexander Coe Alexander Coe is offline
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To add to the thread, does anyone know of a model where they have less that a 2 or 1 and 7/8" nut? Something like 1 and 3/4".
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:26 AM
brian a. brian a. is offline
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Nylon string classicals have a higher action to prevent string buzz on the frets. The lower string tension causes more string movement ( chance for buzz ) but also allows for easier fingering with the higher action. Flamenco guitars have a lower action, but fret buzz is part of their sound. It is a highly percussive sound which includes the buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. If you can play both models first it would help your decision make process a great deal.

Narrow nut nylon string guitars? Look at the Takamine natural or santa fe, Godin slim, Carvin, Ovation Country Artist 6773 lx & Artist Contour 2773 lx
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:43 PM
royd royd is offline
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Wessman,

I've been following this thread and your earlier one... this is the first nylon string guitar you've owned? This is a pretty steep investment for a first nylon string. It is a completely different beast than an acoustic or electric steel string. The sustain is very different. Attack is different. Especially if you're looking at a guitar that is built more for classical players, the feel is completely different.

I have owned 4 or 5 nylon strings, both traditional classical guitars and crossovers. I have always loved the sound of a nylon string guitar when played by someone else but until very recently have felt that something was missing when I play one. I miss the sustain and the different attack of a good steel string (I play a Lowden steel string acoustic and a partscaster electric). My current guitar, a Kenny Hill New World fingerstyle, is the best I've owned and my head is closest to enjoying playing nylon now. It is a crossover and so approaches a steel string in feel and is a great sounding guitar... but I still very, very rarely play it out and occasionally think of selling or trading it. YMMV, but before I would invest that amount of money, I'd be sure I really can enjoy playing a nylon string guitar long term or look only at used guitars. As was said before, the price drop from a new to used crossover is pretty steep. I expect the same is true of mid level nylon strings of any type. You'll likely take a serious hit if you buy a new guitar and then sell it.

All that said, the only Ramirez guitars I have played have been at Guitar Center and never the model you mentioned. No doubt, they received substandard care and many or even most of the acoustics hanging there sounded and played well below their true potential. Still, none impressed me as being better guitars than my Kenny Hill and most were second even to the Guild GAD crossover, both of which cost a lot less. I got my guitar used at a very attractive price.

No, installed electronics should not make a difference in the acoustic sound. On steel strings, I prefer aftermarket pickup systems. My limited experience says that pickup choice is less critical on nylon strings so if the guitar has a pickup and it sounds good amplified, go with it.

There are very few nylon strings with less than a 1 7/8 inch nut. Most have 2 inches or more while many crossovers have 1 7/8. The only narrower one I'm aware of is the Godin slim. Of course, a custom guitar can have anything you want. The problem is that nylon strings move a lot further than steel and if they're too close together, they might hit one another. Same reason for the higher action - to keep down fret buzz.

too many decisions
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2009, 06:29 PM
Foss38 Foss38 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wessman View Post
Hello,

I plan to buy a Ramirez 4N CWE (C-86 CWE was sick expensive), but would like to hear your comments about it if you have ever played it. Should I get it with electronics or without. I have Rivera Sedona 100 watt head with two Rivera Sedona 112EX cabinets and also 2 pcs of AKG C 4000-B mics.

Thanks for your help.

BR: Klarm Yai
Wes ~ I'll have to side with Royd. Having owned quite a few nylons I would say to be sure what you want BEFORE you pull the trigger. The 4n cwe is VERY nice but...the only real difference between it and the 2n cwe is that the 4n is ALL solid wood and the 2n is laminated back and sides (still both rosewood though). Actually the 2n may be structurally stronger in "embracing" the onboard pre-amp. I believe the newest models of Ramirez CWE's have dual source Fishmans. They sound very nice.
That being said,you can't go wrong buying a 4n cwe OR 2n cwe. If it was me I would seriously consider purchasing a NEW 2n cwe. Spanish classical's are delicate and you never know what your gonna get in buying a used one.
Look around on Ebay to get an idea of what they're going for.Some come WITH a very nice Ramirez case.

Happy hunting,Bob
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