Short-scale, why only Cargo?

[kramster]

Tony have you tried Rohrbacher Titanium Strings to last almost as long as the Cargos? I might pick some up to check out..

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7nv3Xh.../rohrtech.com/

[Larry Pattis]

Collings and Santa Cruz have been making their Baby and Firefly (24" scale) for a number of years now. 24" scale guitars are getting some traction in popularity (IMO) and it's unfortunate that both nut width and bridge spacing are at the short end of the range with the production-line instruments. I believe that you can get the Firefly with a 1-3/4" nut, but the bridge spacing is less than 2-1/4". The Larrivée Parlor's bridge spacing is also tight, at 2-3/16".

Adults play these guitars, and I personally believe that the market for these guitars would be bigger with a few changes.

...but that's just my opinion.

It looks like Lukas Brunner is jumping into the carbon-fiber market with this bolt-on/bolt-off neck travel guitar:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=202934

If this is the CF equivalent of his original travel guitar it has a scale length of 21-21.5". Lukas goes the "other way" with nut width, and his standard on the smallest body wood model (perhaps similar to the CF guitar in the other thread) is 1-7/8"+.

[gitardude]

I'm still a bit surprised since the Cargo was such a popular instrument, you'd think somebody would manufacture a model in wood with the same specs. If I were a manufacture, I'd probably do that (not that I know what I'm talking about exactly).

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by kramster

Tony have you tried Rohrbacher Titanium Strings to last almost as long as the Cargos? I might pick some up to check out..

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7nv3Xh.../rohrtech.com/

Kramster:

No, I had not heard of these strings. Over the weekend, I stocked up on my favorites - D'Addario EJ16 that were on sale at GC at $4 a set. So I am good to go for a very long time. However, I might just try a set of those anyway.

Tony

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by gitardude

I'm still a bit surprised since the Cargo was such a popular instrument, you'd think somebody would manufacture a model in wood with the same specs. If I were a manufacture, I'd probably do that (not that I know what I'm talking about exactly).

Company that made those went out of business, no?

[chistrummer]

There are more short scale wood guitars on the market than I care to list here..

[Berf]

I wasn't clear, but I might sell my Martin 00-18V if there were a wood guitar similar to a Cargo. I do appreciate wood, and I'm mainly a couch player.

The Mini-Maton has a 22.75" scale and comes either as a laminate (EML/6) or all-solid woods (EMS/6, EMD/6). They even do a 12-string version with the short scale. Pretty comfortable to play while lounging on the couch but the onboard electrics may not be your thing (and seem to add a bit of weight).

http://www.maton.com.au/acoustics/mi...on-series.html

[coldbrew]

I think the Cargo has an exceptionally thin, sensitive top. With a shorter scale, and therefore lighter string tension, a thicker top is more likely to be under-driven, and not as loud.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

To me, what Howard said about the level of demand for a very short scale is most likely the reason why there generally aren't more guitars with that scale available.

However, if I understand your question as you phrased it, it did not sound as if you were looking for another guitar, but rather just wondering why there weren't more really short scale instruments readily available.

I own three identical Cargos (wine-RT), and to me they are about as simple a guitar as I could hope for - very simply appointed, handles nicely, sounds good, and I don't need to be concerned about cracking and other environmental issues. Just play it and enjoy it and change strings on occasion. It doesn't get much better than that.

Tony

the perceived demand.

i think the success of the gs mini and cargo show that there is a demand for shorter scaled guitars (with wide nuts - i.e. not a 3/4 scale child's guitar), and the industry is slow to catch up. i love them, and even a tacoma papoose can be hard to find a deal on on ebay. custom builders are making more of these guitars, it seems to me.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by mc1

the perceived demand.

i think the success of the gs mini and cargo show that there is a demand for shorter scaled guitars (with wide nuts - i.e. not a 3/4 scale child's guitar), and the industry is slow to catch up. i love them, and even a tacoma papoose can be hard to find a deal on on ebay. custom builders are making more of these guitars, it seems to me.

That would make sense to me, considering the aging "boomer" population. A shorter scale can be easier on the fretting hand with lower string tension and less of a stretch for some chord forms. That was a big factor for me in choosing the Cargo. The 1 3/4" nut and appropriate string spacing at the bridge are nice for fingerstyle playing, so a nice combination with the shorter scale.

Tony

[mc1]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

That would make sense to me, considering the aging "boomer" population. A shorter scale can be easier on the fretting hand with lower string tension and less of a stretch for some chord forms. That was a big factor for me in choosing the Cargo. The 1 3/4" nut and appropriate string spacing at the bridge are nice for fingerstyle playing, so a nice combination with the shorter scale.

Tony

and a little easier on the shoulder as well. plus good for the couch, where many boomers congregate. 'short scale guitar on a long scale couch' - coming to a room near you.

[tbeltrans]

When I see people play those big dreadnought acoustics, with the elbow sticking sticking up in the air, it looks really uncomfortable to me and I am not surprised to read on occasion about shoulder pain.

Tony

[Larry Pattis]

I should have included Steve Sheriff (Edwinson Guitars, an AGF sponsor) as a one-man-shop builder that has experience with 22-7/8" to 24" scale (and regular scale instruments, of course), both on small/parlor bodies, and now with a 00 sized instrument (called the Zephyr).

Current AGF thread, with small-body guitar and bevel:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=202943


Edwinson website:
http://edwinsonguitar.com/Edwinson_Lutherie/Home.html

[scooter74]

Originally Posted by mc1

the perceived demand.

i think the success of the gs mini and cargo show that there is a demand for shorter scaled guitars

The popularity of the Cargo and GS Mini only prove there is a demand for decent sounding travel guitars not short scale guitars. In fact these two guitars have received less than favorable reviews by those that tried to force them in to different roles.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by wilstev

The popularity of the Cargo and GS Mini only prove there is a demand for decent sounding travel guitars not short scale guitars. In fact these two guitars have received less than favorable reviews by those that tried to force them in to different roles.

I think it's fair to say that there is a demand for *something*, small body, and perhaps short-scale.

Your interpretation is that the demand is for one particular thing...but there is no "proof" of anything...IMO.

My perspective is that the unwashed masses of guitar players are unaware of many things surrounding guitar construction, and choices (and non-choices, i.e., limitations based on convention) that have been offered by various builders and manufacturers.

Folks tend to be fairly tuned into nut-width issues these days...around forums such as this....but the general (and generally uneducated) guitar player may not be quite so aware of this.

Folks are also starting to understand string-spacing at the bridge as an important number to consider...amongst forum members. Not so, *I* suspect, for the general public.

Fewer folks understand that the width at the 12th fret (of the fingerboard itself) can be added to nut and bridge numbers to get a better understanding of the guitar's geometry and playability.

This is a tie-in to the whole short-scale aspect of guitars. Folks with small hands and other physical issues are looking more and more at possible ergonomic solutions...and with enough education, they will begin to understand that scale-length is a *huge* and important variable.

I believe, in fact, that a *big* part of the popularity of some of the small body guitars with short-scales is due to the short-scale comfort that these guitars can provide.

Now, if we can just get some of the larger manufacturers to combine the small-body/short-scale thing with wider nut and bridge spacing numbers (and wider 12th fret width!), then we'll be headed (IMO!) in the right direction with these guitars...

Just one man's opinions....