How hard do you push yourself to improve

[jschmitz54]

Is there a line where you push yourself to hard to improve in either technique or songs that are too far beyond your current abilities where it becomes demotivating or a set up for failure.
Conversely if we don’t push hard enough to improve do we risk floundering and losing interest.
How has that played out for you? Is there a guideline for a balance?

[Rev Roy]

Sure, you can push yourself “too hard” and/or frustrate yourself by having unrealistic expectations. That’s pretty much true in every aspect of life. The key is to be self aware enough to find the balance that works for you. I didn’t take up playing until I retired a few years ago. So I have to keep reminding myself I’m just doing this for relaxation and fun. I’m a hard driver by nature and was constantly pushing myself to success during my working life. No more, buddy. I’m retired.

Obviously, you folks who have much different goals in your playing life are going to strike a different balance. As you should.

[shekie]

I've periodically struggled with this since I started playing back in 2015. There have been times I've tried taking on something well above my pay grade with the result being frustration and a loss of interest in playing at all. It happened this summer when I tried to learn Doc Watson's "Deep River Blues". After my instructor tabbed it out for me, I spent six weeks trying to learn how to play it, until in frustration, I cased up the guitar and refused to touch it for a week. I did eventually pull it back out of its case and began playing again, but it was a wake up call about how far down the rabbit hole I'd gone in tying any and all pleasure in playing to my ability to learn this one song.

The flip side is playing it safe, practicing and playing stuff that doesn't present much of a challenge. This sometimes results as you've pointed out, in boredom and loss of interest in playing. The trick for me is to have something that really challenges me, but is understood to be a longterm project, going into it knowing there will be no immediate reward. In addition, to have music that presents some challenge, but provides if not immediate gratification, than relatively quick reward. It also helps to accept that some days, I'm just not going to play well. And finally, to remember that this is supposed to be a hobby, something I do for fun, and despite how poorly I think of my playing, something I do better than 99.9% of the general population.

[TRose]

Good question.
As a relative newbie I’ve attempted to learn some songs/ arrangements and it quickly becomes obvious to me that they are beyond my ability. I abandon them for a while. I ve continued adding to acumen with easier pieces and studies and then have been able to revisit some of them and learn to play them with “relative ease”.

For me, I tend to improve in , what seems to me to be , very small, almost imperceptible increments. Such slow progress may be perceived as floundering but It’s important that the process not seem to torturous( even if it sounds torturous to the family[emoji3]) for me to stick with it. When I’m able to play for previous instructors and my guitar playing brothers I’m getting lots of positive feed back and affirmation. So I know I’m making some progress.

You’ve asked an interesting question and I suspect the answer will be different depending on each individual’s personality. I’m curious what more experienced players have to say about it.

Thanks,
Tom

[jklotz]

This is an excellent question. One that each individual will have a different answer for unfortunately. For me, it's about balance - Spending enough time learning new material to keep the repitior moving along, playing the other stuff I already know to keep it sharp and thirdly, just jamming for fun. Don't ever loose the fun part!

The answer lies, IMHO, in mapping out your practice sessions. For instance, say you have an hour to practice. Set a timer. Do:

5 mins warmup exercises
5 mins scales /arpeggios, etc to a metronome
30 mins running over old material slowly and purposefully
20 mins working on new material

(That is an over-simplification, but hopefully you get my drift.) Your map will be different depending on your goals, of course. Use your timer and don't allow yourself to deviate. That's what I do when I feel like I'm heading down the rabbit hole. If, at the end of it, I still have a little gas in the tank, I'll jam some. I don't always follow this, but the times I have consistently have been the times when I've shown the most improvement. But also, by limiting my time on the really challenging new material, it helps to keep me from getting burned out.

When I first learned this method, I felt like it'll take me forever to learn anything new. But then I later realized I can only retain a certain amount of material at one time anyway, and 20-30 minutes is about my limit. After that, I am just spinning my wheels, which led to frustration.

So that's what I do. Maybe that will help a little?

[NormanKliman]

I’ve always set a high bar for myself, and some things have paid off after over a decade, so I’m going to repeat what I’ve heard most good guitarists say in one form or another, and that is the only secret to good playing is lots of practice.

If you want to improve, it’s a very good idea to have a few extremely difficult things in your repertoire to use as exercises. To avoid burn-out, you should have several pieces to use in this way, you have to be absolutely sure you’re playing them right, they should be fun and you should be able to nail them every once in a while (at least once a month). I use things like that to get back into shape after a few days away from the guitar.

There are different kinds of technique to work on, too, and not all have to do with blinding speed or impossible fretting: playing cleanly, with good tone, controlled dynamics, tight rhythm, etc. If you’re a pro, a lot of that stuff gets taken care of in performance.

[whvick]

I confess that I do not push hard enough.
50 years ago I took classical lessons, and eventually discovered that serious guitar was not in me.
I play to relax. I work on a song enough to sound ok and sing with family. I work on a few instrumentals and some fingerpicking for some songs.
I realize how hard many of you work and really respect your talent, but I fear I will always be a bedroom balladeer. [emoji6]

[Gordon Currie]

Great question.

For me, it has changed a lot over the years. I started playing in September 1966 and only stopped for a few years to try out saxophone.

It took me a long time to learn how to set smart goals. Achievable yet satisfying. Just because it is achievable does not mean you don't have to work long and hard.

In general, I push myself within fairly strict limits. I never set myself up for failure. I always want the small wins to outnumber the small fails.

I think constant perception of failure is devastating for most people and destructive to the learning experience.

Early on, while struggling with something too far over my head (before I figured out that I needed to STOP THAT), I found that playing something familiar helped me to end a practice session on a high note.

I still do that today. I want the last thing I do before putting the guitar away to be joyful and fun and confidence-boosting.

JOY/FUN can be a powerful motivator, and sort of accidentally created a lifelong 'meta' goal that is applicable to ANY skill I wish to learn: every HOUR spent must include something highly enjoyable.

I have always had aspirations that are far beyond my abilities. Some I have mastered while most remain out of reach. But like a sailor viewing a star, I use them as navigation, not as destinations.

I've been playing at the edge of my abilities for 20 years now. All of the repertoire I maintain is very challenging for me. And I'm constantly moving on to the next new thing. It can be a bit much to handle at times.

[KevinH]

I gotta think everyone at times tries to push too hard, regardless of what level you're at. There have been times when I've given up on learning a tune, or just shelving it, because I'm just not ready yet. I try to find things that are challenging, but not impossible. That seems to let me advance, little bit by little bit.

Originally Posted by shekie

...It happened this summer when I tried to learn Doc Watson's "Deep River Blues". After my instructor tabbed it out for me, I spent six weeks trying to learn how to play it, until in frustration, I cased up the guitar and refused to touch it for a week. I did eventually pull it back out of its case and began playing again, but it was a wake up call about how far down the rabbit hole I'd gone in tying any and all pleasure in playing to my ability to learn this one song...

I struggled with that one too for a while. But hang in there. I don't know what arrangement your instructor tabbed out for you, but Paul Davids has a nice one, with video, which I find helps.

[rllink]

I'm a believer in setting smaller attainable goals that lead to a long line of successes over an overly ambitious goal that will likely cause me frustration and failure. I also think that accountability has a lot to do with it for me. I take one on one lessons, online at the moment. But regardless, every week I have to show up and show off what I've been doing and working on. And each week I am determined to show up a little better than the week before. That in itself has been worth the time and money for me. It is really what drives me.

[shekie]

Originally Posted by KevinH

I gotta think everyone at times tries to push too hard, regardless of what level you're at. There have been times when I've given up on learning a tune, or just shelving it, because I'm just not ready yet. I try to find things that are challenging, but not impossible. That seems to let me advance, little bit by little bit.



I struggled with that one too for a while. But hang in there. I don't know what arrangement your instructor tabbed out for you, but Paul Davids has a nice one, with video, which I find helps.

Thank you for the link. He tabbed out what he heard/saw from a Doc Watson video and allegedly dumbed it down a bit for me. I guess he doesn't know just how dumb the tab needs to be

[j3ffr0]

I'd suggest the secret to improving is having fun. I believe practice routines are the kiss of death when there is nothing fun about them. Many a person starting through the motions of any routine (in whatever it is) will pretty soon be taking a prolonged break due to the soul sucking nature of routine and forced practice.

If you have fun running arpeggios for hours, then do it. If you have fun beating on the same three choose until you are perfectly in the pocket with the metronome, then do it. If you have fun farting and learning riffs off youtube, then do it. If you have fun re-recording old songs and *******izing the words, then do it. All of it will make you a better musician. If you want to mess in alternate tunings do that. Enjoy improvising over a blues progression, go for it! Percussive techniques, have at it! Working out melodies using tensions such as 7th 9th, 11th and 13ths over three chord tunes -- have a blast!

But don't bother with anything, that isn't fun on some level. I say this as a player who used to have some pretty serious practice routines and has taken many prolonged breaks.

[spock]

Great question, and one I have some personal experience with. After many years as a self taught - and mostly mediocre - guitar player, I finally decided to spring for some lessons with an honest to goodness real guitar instructor.

I would go once per week for an hour, and the instructor would give me a new assignment in the genre that I requested (fingerpicking country blues) which I was to go home and learn so that I could play it for him at our next visit. The pieces were always just a bit or two beyond my capabilities, meaning in order to get them under my fingers I really had to buckle down and practice an hour or two a day, but I would manage to pull it off each week, sometimes only barely, before taking on the next week's challenge.

This went on for about 6 months, and in the process I learned two things. One, I got a whole heck of a lot better as a guitar player, learning to do and play things I would never have imagined I could, and two, the constant pressure to practice and perform each week took on the makings of a second job and I eventually quit because while vastly improving my skills, I was similarly decreasing my enjoyment of playing.

Bottom line, somewhere in between was probably where the sweet spot existed, which in the future when I pursue lessons again I will seek to establish. BTW, I have no interest in playing publicly nor any delusions of grandeur, I just wanted to play better, but at what cost in a life filled with many other passions is what I still need to work out.

[Mandobart]

My story, which apparently only applies to me, is just to keep doing things that appeal to me. I have never, ever, treated music like a job or a chore. All through elementary, junior high and high school, I played because I liked it. I liked being part of an orchestra, stage band and garage bands. I love playing music with other people. It was always important to me to learn my part and play it in order to support the rest of the group, the team.

I don't "push myself" to play any more than I "push myself" to breathe, or talk, or read, or walk my dogs....

I do these thing because.....I like to do them. I like to work on my instruments - customize, polish, change strings. I really like to play my instruments - fiddles, mandolins, banjos, guitars....I never have the bad or off days that everyone else complains of.

I hear songs I like and chase them down, learn them by ear, play them and teach them to others. Its not a contest or competition to me, but the more instruments I learn to play, the more songs I learn, the more I enjoy it.