X20 vs. X10 neck and carbon instruments I've owned...

[studioman001]

Hey everybody. I'm not in the financial place to make this decision yet but I'm trying to be ready with a choice once the time arrives... Here is my situation:

I have owned many acoustic/electrics over the years and over the past 13 years or so, many of them have been carbon fiber. I intend to eventually have a high quality wood guitar for home, and, a high quality all carbon fiber guitar for gigging etc. Here is what I've owned and my brief thoughts on each. After this I will outline what I'm looking for and hopefully people can chime in with their opinions!

Larrivee LV03re. Yes this is a wooden instrument but I'm mentioning it here because for me, it was the best neck out of all the wooden acoustics I've owned.

Adamas 2080. The guitar sounded quite nice and was comfortable to hold. The two deal breakers for me though were that the textured finish was too scratchy and it drove me nuts. Also, the string spacing was just too narrow for me. It had a wood neck as well and at this point, all carbon is what I'm after for the out of the house guitar.

Rainsong A-WS1000. This was my first all carbon fiber guitar and for what it was, I was pretty impressed;until I played a higher end Rainsong that is...

Rainsong S and H series guitars. I owned a few of these and the satin finish drove me nuts yet again. I would not consider one of these again for that reason.

Rainsong Bluegrass 12 fret dreadnought. This guitar played great and sounded great! It had the satin finish though which was why I ended up selling it. I tried to find a high gloss version but never had any luck. (I believe they only made a small number of them.) As far as the three H series guitars I owned, the fit and finish were fine as well as the playability, however, the tone just wasn't there for me. The prices were certainly right though;especially compared to what guitars cost these days!

Rainsong classic JM1000. The build quality was great, it sounded fantastic, but, the body was just too large for me.

Rainsong classic DR1000. I loved this guitar! The sound was just inspiring and rich! Now I complain about necks a lot for varius reasons but the Rainsong n1 neck for me was **** near perfect! This was after I had owned the Emerald X20 though and I found the body a bit too deep along with the sharp edges. (Once you've owned an Emerald, you'll know what I'm talking about.)

Rainsong classic WS1000. Nothing really wrong with this guitar but it didn't quite have the magic of the Bluegrass dreadnought or the DR1000 for some reason. It sounded okay and played fine because of the n1 neck but again, I just found the body uncomfortable.

Emerald T20. This was a great dreadnought! If it had been all gloss, I probably would have kept it, but, the satin finish emerald used at the time felt and sounded awful in my opinion. (The crystal ice finish or whatever it was that they started using later was fine though because it was smoother and a lot quieter. It didn't bother me at all.)

Composite Acoustics Legacy, OX, and GXI guitars. These were all built well. I prefered the Peavey models over the originals. In fact, the GXI with the Fishman Aura electronics, sounded amazing through my pa, or, even recorded direct into my DAW! It was slightly rounded too which made it more comfortable. The neck was just too wide for me though and I had trouble playing it because I have an old pinky injury that causes that finger to totally lock up at certain angles. If the neck hadn't been quite so wide, that guitar would have probably stayed with me for longer than it did. The Legacy's body was too large and the OX model, while comfortable to hold, sounded small and thin when unplugged. (All well built guitars though! It's a shame they went under.)

Emerald X30. This guitar is a work of art and although large, was comfortable to hold. It had too much bass for me though and I heard too much "ping" when playing her unplugged which drove me crazy. I did talk to Emerald about it and did send them a recording of it. It's most likely the ss frets, the larger body, and the fact that I am a bit of a heavy handed fretter. (I use a lot of hammer ons and pull offs during solos and I could hear it even more then.) I showed it to a few people around here just to be sure I wasn't going crazy and while a couple heard it, a couple didn't hear it at all. I believe they weren't using the plec machine yet when I purchased this insturment but I don't think I want to take another chance on one due to having to pack it up and ship it back to Ireland if I encounter the same issue again.

Finally, the Emerald X20. To me, this guitar checks many boxes on the good list! 24 stainless steel frets, plec setup these days, single piece mold/construction so less to worry about over time, very comfortable body, good volume and tone, etc. I have owned a few going way back to the X20 Opus which I paid $1500 new many moons ago. (Can you imagine paying that price for a new Emerald these days?)

My only real issue with the X20 is the thickness of the neck. The string spacing and guitar scale are fine;it's just that the neck is too chunky.

So, this brings me to my question... Would the neck on an X10 be a good fit given all that I've stated above? I know the neck is thinner, but, how much of a difference is the string spacing/neck width when compared to the X20?

I know the X10 has a smaller body and is a bit quieter than the X20 but if the neck were a better fit for me, perhaps I could accept those two things.

If I had my way, I would have an X20 with the exact Rainsong n1 neck. The custom neck options are really freaking expensive though and if I do drop $3k on a custom X20, I know it can't be returned if it doesn't work out for me.

My other option is just to roll the dice and buy a stock X10 and if it doesn't work out, send it back to Ireland. Again, this is a hassle I'd rather avoid if I can.

So, what are your thoughts? (Sorry, I know this has been pretty long!)

[new2guitar_eh]

Maybe try to find an ambassador near you who has an X10 for you to try out?

[studioman001]

Yes, I had forgotten about that! That would indeed answer my X10 neck question...

[Captain Jim]

My X20 has the stock neck. When I ordered my X10 (which has a 1 11/16ths" nut width), I did so with a shorter scale neck. This was before Emerald had their 3D Builder, so I had to pay an upcharge to go from 25.5" scale to 24.6".

I like the feel and playability of both guitars and have no issue going back and forth. The thinner profile neck on the X10 is more comfortable to me, but the X20 gives me no problems. (I had a RainSong Shorty with the N2 neck, and it would give me hand cramps after an hour or so of playing... but I kept it for 4 years because it was my first CF guitar and had nice tone. But, I digress.)

As I age and have issues with arthritis in my hands, comfort is a big deal (for me). Each Emerald feels very different from the others, but at this point, each is very playable (for some length of time). If thinning the herd becomes a necessity, the Emeralds will be the last to go. Maybe after I go. (and yes, my wife knows what I paid for them.)

Perhaps not the definitive answer you were looking for, but each is comfortable.

[studioman001]

Ahoy Captain Jim...

It's interesting you mentioned that because that **** N2 Rainsong neck was terrible! My fretting hand would hurt so bad even after just a half hour of playing. I don't know who thought that particular neck was the one to go with. For me at least, the original N1 Rainsong neck was perfect and didn't bother my fretting hand/wrist at all.

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by studioman001

Ahoy Captain Jim...

It's interesting you mentioned that because that **** N2 Rainsong neck was terrible! My fretting hand would hurt so bad even after just a half hour of playing. I don't know who thought that particular neck was the one to go with. For me at least, the original N1 Rainsong neck was perfect and didn't bother my fretting hand/wrist at all.

I know we all have our favorite neck profiles. I was a Taylor guy before getting that first carbon fiber guitar (which I misspoke: it was the NS neck on the Shorty, not the N2 - same profile, 24.9" scale instead of the 25.5 of the N2).

That said, the NS/N2 neck is the only guitar I've owned that made my hand cramp up. I thought I was pretty adaptable for neck profile until playing that neck.

[studioman001]

I taught and gigged with a Taylor 512 for a solid six years and had little issue with the neck. But that n2 neck, blllaarrggg...

Supposedly it was designed with Steve Miller and some luthier I'm not familiar with. I thought Steve Miller was an odd choice. I mean I like his music but there are many acoustic guitar virtuosos they could have worked with out there... Just my two cents...

[DaveVA]

You may want to reach out to @brainfertilizer, an Emerald ambassador who owned both an X10 and an X20 (although I think he just sold one). He let me play both several months ago. I found them both very comfortable. I don't remember having issues with either of the necks, but I think the X10 was thinner.

Good luck!

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by studioman001

I taught and gigged with a Taylor 512 for a solid six years and had little issue with the neck. But that n2 neck, blllaarrggg...

Supposedly it was designed with Steve Miller and some luthier I'm not familiar with. I thought Steve Miller was an odd choice. I mean I like his music but there are many acoustic guitar virtuosos they could have worked with out there... Just my two cents...

Might as well add my dos centavos too then. I also owned a Shorty for about 4 years. Same as Captain, kept it because it had good tone and because...well it was just a cool guitar. But that neck man. RainSong consulted with Steve Miller and luthier John Bolin. Bolin has created some awesome electric guitars and has worked some some of the biggest rock stars in the industry making custom guitars. But, about the closest thing I can discern from Bolin's website having worked with an acoustic player is Doc Watson.

The best description I ever heard of the neck was from Jim Kozel. He called it reminiscent of a '59 Les Paul. Yep, that about nails it. I called it the "Space Cowboy", and it sure was out there.

Anyway...good luck on finding that perfect guitar. I'm not nearly as picky about necks, string spacing and nut widths that I thought I was. Unless it is the N2

[Melt in the Sun]

Emerald used to do custom neck profiles, but I'm not sure whether or not that's still an option. My X20 has a Taylor neck profile, and the feel is exactly as I'd hoped.

[Marshall]

My gripe with Rainsong necks was not the profile, but the 20" radius on all their fingerboards. Very flat. That irritated me enough that I sold it. I liked the thick NS profile. Just not the flat fingerboard.