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#1
06-14-2004, 09:52 PM
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reference point ???
ok, going through stuff in Hal Leonards 1 2 & 3 books. On book 1 . . . What do you use to reference your right hand when picking? I mean do you rest some portion on the bridge? Set pinkie against 1st string ? I am finding since I am using all the strings now, I tend to miss the one I am going for and get a neighboring strings . . Or is this simply one of the things I'll get used to, missing the correct strings less and less ?
-wayne
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Wayne Taylor 714ce, 410R, Big Baby 
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#2
06-14-2004, 11:17 PM
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Comes with time and experience just like everything else related to guitar. As long as you understand the concept and know how to do it it'll come to you.
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'03 Martin D-1 (Smokey) '99 Gibson Les Paul Historic Re-Issue '54 (Goldy) '03 Taylor 614-ce Spec. Summer Strummer (Snowy) -Charlie Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find.
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#3
06-14-2004, 11:19 PM
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O, also I rest my pinky on the pickguard. It helps u become more accurate.
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'03 Martin D-1 (Smokey) '99 Gibson Les Paul Historic Re-Issue '54 (Goldy) '03 Taylor 614-ce Spec. Summer Strummer (Snowy) -Charlie Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find.
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#4
06-17-2004, 06:25 AM
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waynep
wherever your arm touches the guitar can be your reference point... obviously people pick differently...some folks are in a nearly constant half-palm-muted position, some folks curl the middle ring and pinky...some let middle ring pinky brush along the guitar top...some plant pinkyman.... perhaps more importantly though... are you using a metronome...? are you clapping out ryhthms before attempting to pick? are you drilling? how are you drilling? drill tends to get tedious unless you make it very short-lived and well-defined... saying something (in good faith) like "well, da$$it man , I'll just do it over and over, man, until I get it, man, I can do it, man...etc" is virtually worthless (unfortunately) if you don't have a specific "it" in mind....a whole tune or whole section of a tune is generally way too big to qualify as an "it" when it comes to drilling and practicing....you can spend hours, days, weeks, etc...bumbling about making the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over and over....that gets discouraging and turns music readers into ex-music readers pretty quickly... if you're having trouble getting the pick to the right strings...perhaps pick out some very short chunks of music and practice them repeatedly... ex) 4/4 time and you've just got 8 quarter notes over two measures...but you're flubbing it up... metronome on...foot tapping.... count out to four... then play the 8 beats......purposefully....not tentatively....and I don't care if you 'whiffed' and completely missed the first 3 strings and 3 notes...play it through without stopping...just do it (as long as you actually are clear on what you were trying to do) four beats to regroup your head...foot going... and REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT....etc.... no stopping to huff and puff, no stopping to throw the book, no stopping to whine, no stopping to say "this is tough", no stopping to say "well, maybe this isn't worth it", no stopping to peek at Robin Meade on CNN, no stopping to say "gee honey, you ougtha do your hair like that"...the time you waste fumbling around the floor for your teeth and glasses is wasted practice time..... BE EFFICIENT! even at a snail's pace of 60 bpm it would only take you 16 seconds to do out those two measures (with the counting and regrouping) you could repeat those two measures 10 times in a mere 160 seconds.... and if that doesn't work.... can you spare another 160 seconds? can you spare another 160 seconds if that didn't work...? to FOREVER be over a playing hump...? of course you can... we're talking about mere minutes...even if you are really struggling if you focus the practice you will be successful in mere minutes... and if not, go to something a little bit simpler, drill, and make sure you experience success....I don't care if you end up going all the way back to page 1....experience success and build... again, do not play tenatively...you'll start sounding very mechanical and unmusical... like all you're trying to do is 'not screw up'...blah... you're trying to 'do' something...not 'not do' something... yes, you just have to "keep at it" but the typical person will progress so much more quickly if they keep at very specific things... by the way, once you are getting the pick and fingers to the right spots, take the time to make what you're playing as musical as you can...an accent here, a hammer,slide, pull-off there, a grace note over there....etc...don't just play what's in the book....
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Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#5
06-17-2004, 08:08 AM
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My instructor can play guitar well. To me it's impressive but than again, to you all maybe he would'nt be. In reading the threads on good/bad instructors, I think I know which category mine falls in. I am paid up for a couple more lessons, then I think I am going to make a change. There is a guy I know that is very good, knows theory well, is classical guitar trained who started on steel string before changing to classical. I am going to go have lunch with him and lay out some sort of "curriculum" then go see him for my lessons. I started with him but things went down hill because he was'nt planning for lessons and I got frustrated with his lack of planning. My current teacher isnt any better at planning either. Hence the lunch meeting and lesson planning. I won't be able to do that for a week or two since he is out on a fishing trip. In the mean time, do you have suggestions for drills? I have seen books like "10 Minute Guitar Workout". I have not really looked at it but I assume it's a collection of drills etc. Quote:
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One thing my instructor is having my learn is the Em pentatonic scale. I also understand the essentially it the same notes as the G Penatonic scale also, but starts on a different note. He is starting to have me make something up, solo if you will, using the notes on the scale, while he plays a little chord progression. I have a hard time mixing the notes up and NOT playing the scale in order. I still have to think about what positions are on the scale and then get there. It seems like a lot to think about at this point. I assume that at some point I will simply "know" that this groups of notes is on the scale, and be able to hit them without thinking about where they are etc. Hopefully you understand what I mean . . . I watched a guy in the shop yesterday. He was sitting there playing a Strat, playing this bluesy sounding stuff. Picking, small chords etc. I sat down and just listened and watched for about 30 minutes. I finally asked him about what he was playing. He said it was all based on a 5-1-4 progression. He said it wasnt that hard, but to me it looks like rocket science . . . Maybe someday I'll understand what he was doing. I understand what a chord progression is, and what the 5-1-4 means . . I just can't sit down and blaze off the stuff he was doing. After all, he has been playing years and years, to my months. Maybe someday!!!! I asked him how long he had been playing, he said about 12 years I think. So maybe by the time I am 48 I will be able to do that!!!  I'll stop rambling now . . . -wayne
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Wayne Taylor 714ce, 410R, Big Baby
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#6
06-17-2004, 08:35 AM
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Wayne,
If your first instructor wasn't good at planning before, what makes you think he'll be any better at it now? I know you said that you were going to "lay out some sort of curriculum" when you met, but that shouldn't be your job, it should be his (IMHO). If you really meant that you're going to list some goals and he will decide how to get you there, that's something else. Unless these two are the only instructors available in your area, you might be better off looking elsewhere.
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#7
06-17-2004, 09:32 AM
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I think if I meet with my buddy and lay out some goals and high level plans, it will be better than what I am doing now and allow me to set a direction I want to go rather than simply which riff do we want to learn today. I will keep my eye out for a better teacher though, and if I find one, then I can always make another change. -wayne
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Wayne Taylor 714ce, 410R, Big Baby
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#8
06-17-2004, 09:37 AM
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wayne, good luck. As you mentioned in your other thread, sometimes the student just has to take control. I'm glad you're being an active partner in the student/instructor relationship -- too many students aren't.
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#9
06-17-2004, 10:30 AM
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__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#10
06-17-2004, 10:34 AM
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I somehow got my post entangled in your quote!
couldn't figure out how to fix it without fear of losing it so I just left it....
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#11
06-17-2004, 12:30 PM
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Mapletrees, as usual, has good advice.
What I donsider a "drill" is what I think MT is talking about. If I have a passsage in a song that is giving me trouble, either with fretting hand chord changes, right hand picking or both I break it down to see just what EXACTLY is hanging me up. Can't fret that string cleanly when I change strings? Why? Would a different wrist angle help? becoming more aware of my finger tip position? ANticipating the change a bit earlier? Is there a "space" in the tune that allows me to begin the change that I am not aware of? Picking pattern throwing me off? Which beats? What fingers do I want to be using to pick shich string? I then repeat the difficult passage VERY SLOWLY WITH A METRONONE (always in use) till get used to feeling what I SHOULD be feeling, doing what I SHOULD be doing. It may be only a few notes that are giving me a hard time (usually the case), but I concentrate on them. Spend maybe 5 or 10 minutes concentrating on that area, then rest a bit-maybe play some other part of the song or the whole tune in a relaxed manner. Rest a bit, then hit it again. I imagine it like polishing a rock with small strokes concentrating on the rough area. Don't go getting all tense about it-relax, but concentrate and make each move a thoughtful one. You'll be surprised-it really helps.
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"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." Henry Van Dyke "It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one" Norman Maclean,
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#12
06-17-2004, 07:49 PM
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I use it . . not on all the songs but on ones I like and want to get goos at and up to their speed. Quote:
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I also understand that scales relate to soloing. My understanding is that basically if the notes fall into a particular scale then they will sound like they belong together. I was fooling around with some notes on the Em Pent scale while my instructor was playing some chords . . I hit a wrong note and I could hear that it didnt belong . . . -wayne
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Wayne Taylor 714ce, 410R, Big Baby
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#13
06-25-2004, 06:34 PM
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waynep,
got that metronome yet? I won't talk to you if you haven't! (just another aspect of my intolerant nature, don't you see...) have you found out what a melodic pattern is yet? (if I forget to mention odd vs even and/or even vs odd at the end of this post, then ask) some might refer to practicing scales with melodic patterns as 'sequencing'....don't know if they have the same formal definition...don't know if it matters.... could do this with any scale in any position...wouldn't matter if it's something simple such as a pentatonic or some other scale... what you do (to both get out of the habit of playing through the scale the same way every time and to better hear different melodic possibilities contained within the scale) is simply repeat a short pattern of notes from every note of the scale that's a loose definition... sometimes definition is better demonstrated through example..... a simple (although easily overused) melodic pattern.... descending triplets...descending through the scale... take the plain old Amin pentatonic scale... wish I knew how to incorporate TAB in these posts.... pardon the mess... again, any scale, any position would work... use the Amin pent fingering you find at 6th (thick string): 5th fret - 8th fret 5th: 5 - 7 4th: 5-7 3rd: 5-7 2nd: 5-8 1st (skinny string): 5-8 could start anywhere....might as well start at the highest note in the fingering.... play a descending triplet as xxxxx8 then xxxxx5 then xxxx8x now repeat that pattern but START IT FROM THE NEXT LOWEST NOTE IN THE SCALE (with respect to the original starting note) so, now play (again as a triplet) xxxxx5 to xxxx8x to xxxx5x keep moving that pattern down through the scale... next you would play xxxx8x to xxxx5x to xxx7xx next you would play xxxx5x to xxx7xx to xxx5xx etc...etc....right down through the whole fingering...or as far as you want.... ***do it both with just picking each note and then do it trying to incorporate hammer-ons and pull-offs where practical.......*** use a metronome! you can quickly build up tremendous speed with such patterns.... keep in mind, that is just one example of a melodic pattern.... you can make up an infinite variety....it would probably be very helpful to TAB some out for yourself on paper or an index card......occasionally drill on them...do not spend excessive time on such exercises... now, going back to that simple pattern.... mapletrees likes to recycle.... I'M NOT TOLERANT OF THOSE WHO DON'T!!!!! an abrasive big green meany, that's what I am.... downright nasty.... you can recycle that one pattern into other patterns.... ex1) you could still play descending triplets, but make each starting note of the three notes in the pattern ASCEND through the scale... ex2) odd vs even.....there were three notes in the original repeating pattern and we played them as triplets... what would happen if you played through the same exact sequence of notes as the original pattern but played them as 8th notes (2 per beat instead of the 3 per beat triplets....CAUTION...TAB THAT OUT BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO PLAY another example of a melodic pattern........major scales...melodic intervals....just in thirds is good enough....gotta go...I'll be back...another woodchuck in the garden.... it's past their bedtime!??!?!?!??!!?!!!!?!!?!??!?!?!?!??????
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#14
06-25-2004, 08:21 PM
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just to make that clear... just to make it clear and concise, Daddy? yes, pumpkin..... ..... same exact pattern...but STARTING NOTE of each triplet ASCENDS through the given scale.... again, could start anywhere within any scale fingering.... could pull out of the pattern at any time..... you might go (as triplets) xxx7xx to xxx5xx to xx7xxx then move the STARTING note of the triplet UP (but keep the descending triplet pattern) xxxx5x to xxx7xx to xxx5xx again, move starting note of triplet up... xxxx8x to xxxx5x to xxx7xx keep the pattern going if you want...or pull out of it and slide up (or bend) to the note A at x x x x 10 x to finish..... again, pick 'em all....then incorporate ho's and po's...do not lose your ability to pick.... again, you can make up endless varieties of patterns... here's one that doesn't really fit the loose definiton that I gave before...but still, clearly a pattern... again, same scale, with triplets.....(no, you don't have to always use triplets, nor should you...) starting on the low strings of that Amin pent fingering...as triplets... 5xxxxx to 8xxxxx to x5xxxx ok, that was an ASCENDING triplet....now go to the next highest note FROM WHERE YOU JUST ENDED...and play a DESCENDING triplet.... that would be x7xxxx to x5xxxx to 8xxxxx ok, now go to the NEXT HIGHEST NOTE FROM WHERE YOU JUST ENDED.....and play an ASCENDING triplet that would be... x5xxxx to x7xxxx to xx5xxx... now go to xx7xxx and start a DESCENDING triplet....etc.....etc.... get up to a high A somewhere..... endless variety..... ****odd vs even****....if you were to tab that out with straight and swing 8ths and straight and swing 16ths and play it you'd have a very different feeling and sounding exercise.....again, it would still be 3 notes up and then 3 notes down - but not with triplets.... haven't gotten to thirds yet.....
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#15
06-25-2004, 09:35 PM
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The types of patterns Mapletrees is describing are very useful, because: 1) they help you know the scales from any starting point to any other point. they provide interesting ways to connect things when playing solos. A run don the scale is not nearly as interesting as a patterns that ascends or descends the scale. A large part of tyeh art of classic rock lead guitar is based on these types of patterns. They are also used in most other styles, such as Jazz, blues, etc. (actually, all of these styles substantially overlap.) I uess what I'm sayiong is that it is very, very helpful to know several interesting patterns for ascending and descending scales. It is one of the easiest things you can do to sound much better as a lead guitarist.
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