Forgive me

[Dbone]

...I’m a total electric guitar newb, so I apologize for this question regarding a topic that is likely well understood/known....

I had some sense from past reading that tremelos can generally be quite problematic in terms of sending the guitar out of of tune when they are used. Some recent references/reading I’ve come across seems to suggest the tuning related problems for tremelos go even further beyond this, and can even be a problem when the tremelo is not used? Particularly with alternate tunings?

Is this true? Can someone sum up what the lay of the land is generally speaking with tremelos? Starting to get the impression they are more of a pain in the butt than anything else?

Thanks in advance for helping characterize what the deal is...just trying to decide if a first electric guitar purchase will be with or without one...

Cheers

[Steel and wood]

Depends on the tremolo (vibrato) system on the guitar (including the bridge) and how heavy handed you want to be.

I installed a Bigsby vibrato on my Samick Greg Bennett Royale semi including switching out the stop tail bridge to a roller bridge. (Guitar stays in tune when giving it a gentle push/pull over chords when I'm in the mood but anything more than that effects the tuning). I also installed a Bigsby on my Telecaster and again, it stays in tune if I'm pretty gentle with it. (A Bigsby vibrato isn't designed for dive bombing).

There are things you can do to set up your Stratocaster's tremolo (vibrato) so you can be a bit more heavy handed and of course, there are fail safe Floyd Rose and other systems which you can install to allow you to be as heavy handed as you like. (I'm not much of a fan though).

Apart from looking cool, they are integral to the way I play, even if I do use them sparingly or sometimes not at all and even if they do have their shortcomings.


Hope this helps!

[rampix]

I'll give you my perspective Dbone, but take into account I'm a long time acoustic player who's been dabbling with electric for only a few years now. I went through quite a few guitars deciding what it was I wanted, some with tremolo and some without. I finally settled on strat style guitars with the trem. I rarely use the tremolo, so I have both of mine blocked...but I can remove the blocks and bingo, I have a whammy bar. I like the versatility of having the choice.

Anyway, that's what ended up working best for me. Good luck on the hunt!

btw-if you stay in one tuning the issue isn't that bad. But if you change tunings often I would avoid the tremolo. they're also a little finicky at string change while they settle in, but it's something you learn to work with and isn't that big a deal.

[Dru Edwards]

A good tremolo with good hardware (including springs) will be fine for what it was intended for. Don't dive bomb a strat tremolo because it won't be nearly as effective as a Floyd Rose for tuning stability.

Like rampix (^), I blocked the trem on one of my Strats. My two American Strats are unblocked but my Mexi is blocked.

The key is setting up the tremolo correctly.

[BoneDigger]

Most of the tuning issues I have seen have been because of the nut not being cut correctly. The strings tend to bind and then it throws the guitar out of tune. A Bigsby or a strat trem (or most others) inherently will be fine if the nut is cut correctly and it is set up correctly. Dive bombing can cause issues with any guitar. Also, the bridge can play a role. If you get a nice bar bridge or roller bridge, usually not many issues at all.

[Dbone]

Thanks for the replies fellas. Your replies are helpful.

Here’s an example of a post on some other forum a few hours ago. When ya read stuff like this, which seems to be talked about a lot, it makes you wonder what the reality of owning one of these things is like —>

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru....php?t=2024720

I have heard claims by Godin that their “Tru-lock” tremolo solves the issue suffered by most other tremolo systems (saw Robert Godin make this claim in a presentation video on YouTube some time ago), but I have no evidence that this is true. Anybody on here able to validate Godin’s claim?

Couple links about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHlx6fZfQ4E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7iC1o3xDrk

[guitararmy]

I am another one who blocks the trem on my tremolo-equipped guitars, or decks the trem (tightening the springs so the bridge plate rests on the guitar body).
Unless I have a stabilizer installed, a broken string will throw the other 5 out of whack...

[Dbone]

Found this pretty amusing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFzf7pPRALM

[YamahaGuy]

I'm fortunate that my Pacifica 012, updated with Tusq nut and saddles (yes, all six) stays in tune very well when doing dive bombs. That said, I've set up (and tried my best) to set up strats to get the trem to work smoothly, and more often than not end up blocking off the trem. A buddy of mine is a Gretch nut and his Bigsby is out of tune more than it's in tune. I've always thought to myself that if I get (another) strat, it will be a hardtail.

[Dru Edwards]

I bought my BC Rich Warlock with Floyd Rose back in 1989. I still have it although it's no longer one of the guitars I regularly play. I can dive bomb that to the point that the strings are totally lose and it comes back in tune.

One thing I don't like about guitars with tremolos is that when you bend one note to pitch and then fret another note on another string then that note is slightly out of tune.

Dbone, if you want a guitar with a tremolo don't let the negative points override the positives.

[BoneDigger]

I have Bigsby tremolos on most of my guitars (even my Les Paul). Once I file the nut a bit and use a roller bridge and some lube on the nut, I really don't have any issues. I mostly just lightly use the tremolo and don't go crazy with it so that may help.

[Bob Womack]

I've got three that I love, and all have locking tuners:


A Sterling LK100D with their vintage trem. This is a Steve Lukather signature guitar. If you've watched Steve play you'll know that he does some moderate pyrotechnics using both down and up bends with the trem arm. It pulls off this stuff very well and, in fact, if rigged with .009 strings can pull off a step-and-a-half sharp bends. It has plenty of back pressure so you almost don't feel that it is even there. Best, it can easily pull off chord wobbles.


A G&L Dual Fulcrum Trem on an S-500 Strat guitar. The "L" in the name G&L was Leo Fender. It was his last company where he got to develop his trademark instruments to a high potential. It is very stable and smooth for wobbling chords.


A Carvin TL60T with a Wilkinson Trem. It is very stable and smooth for wobbling chords.

Here is the trade-off: A trem bridge will flex as you bend notes with your left hand, making it a little more work to bend exactly onto pitch. It also causes all the other strings to go flat, so if you bend up on one string and fret another, that second one will go flat.

Here is what the trem bridge brings to the table: If you think about it, left-hand vibrato can ONLY cause upwards vibrato. You vibrate the notes by bending sharp, you can't go flat. A trem bridge allows you to create vibrato that moves both flat and sharp around the base note (tonic), or goes sharp, or goes flat. If you want a vibrato that wobbles around the tonic, you need a trem bridge. Here's an example:



Bob

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Dbone

...I’m a total electric guitar newb...I had some sense from past reading that tremolos can generally be quite problematic in terms of sending the guitar out of of tune when they are used...just trying to decide if a first electric guitar purchase will be with or without one...

My thoughts:

• For a first electric I'd pass on the trem - there are plenty of A-list players over the years who didn't have/use them (simply put, almost anyone who ever strapped on a Les Paul or Telecaster, most semi-hollow players, and just about every jazzer I can think of), and if you're even the least bit concerned at this stage IMO you'd be better off without it;
• I'd set it up as close as possible to your go-to acoustic while you acclimate yourself to the lower action (especially if you use flatwound strings) - 11's (with a wound G) are a good compromise, 12's were factory OEM for all the "classic" designs(LP/SG/ES, Strat/Tele, Gretsch/Guild hollowbodies, etc.) back in the '50s/60s - and once you become accustomed to the lighter touch required you can go down (or up) in gauge;
• I'd also suggest a full-size hollowbody or semi-hollow as a first electric - you'll find the handling very similar to an acoustic, which IME will also make the transition smoother...

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Dbone

...I’m a total electric guitar newb, so I apologize for this question regarding a topic that is likely well understood/known....

I had some sense from past reading that tremelos can generally be quite problematic in terms of sending the guitar out of of tune when they are used. Some recent references/reading I’ve come across seems to suggest the tuning related problems for tremelos go even further beyond this, and can even be a problem when the tremelo is not used? Particularly with alternate tunings?

Is this true? Can someone sum up what the lay of the land is generally speaking with tremelos? Starting to get the impression they are more of a pain in the butt than anything else?

Thanks in advance for helping characterize what the deal is...just trying to decide if a first electric guitar purchase will be with or without one...

Cheers

No reason to avoid a trem. Yes, get it set up right and so forth, obviously. Google "floating trem" and "decked trem", see which way you want to go. I always decked my Tom Andersons with trems and really noticed no or practically no difference in tuning stability, being able to do unison bends in tune, and so forth between them and my hardtails (meaning no trem.)

It takes some practice, especially with a floating trem, to return to the right tuning after a substantial dive or pull, but it's just another skill to develop. It can certainly be done, Eric Johnson does it a lot. And Jeff Beck.

Different people have different opinions. Mine is to not try to find an electric that is similar to what you're used to on acoustic, or to use bigger strings on it than you'd typically find on an electric. It's just not a hard transition from one to another, and you'll soon be able to go back and forth seamlessly with (wait for it...) practice. If you have monster hands or don't bend, fine, but even SRV ended up using .011s tuned down a half-step once he sobered up. There's a reason why most polls will show people use .009 or .010 strings more than anything else.

But IMO, go ahead and get the guitar you like and, if it has trem, don't shy away because of that.

[raysachs]

Depends on the trem. A decked trem only lets you push down on the bar, as do some trems by design. A strat trem is designed to be able to float, but can easily be decked, which only allows slackening the strings, not stretching them. If setup that way, bending notes won’t pull other strings out of tune. Some Strats come decked from the factory. A blocked trem won’t move in either direction - it’s functionally a hardtail as long as the block is left in place. Eric Clapton model Strats are sold with a wooden block in place to totally immobilize the trem. Some folks who play the whammy aggressively, like them floating - Hendrix couldn’t have done what he did on Machine Gun or the Star Spangled banner without a floating trem. OTOH, Robert Cray never uses a trem and had his signature strat designed as a hardtail, with a string through bridge like a tele.

I’m a strat guy, but I don’t have ANY ability to use a trem musically - I’ve tried and nothing good comes from it, so I have a Robert Cray hardtail as my strat. I’ve had others that came with a floating bridge and I just deck em and leave the bar in the case, so it’s functionally a hardtail - some come set up that way from the factory.

But, yes, a fully floating trem can do things that can’t be done without one, but can also create their own set of problems.

-Ray