Interesting 30m levels-setting advice from EV

[ZackPomerleau]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

The "0" is a decibel setting, and (of course) doesn't mean zero sound since you can still hear a lot! Decibels are kinda complicated and anyone wanting to dive into it can go here

https://audiouniversityonline.com/de...ntent=anc-true

In practice decibels mean different things in different contexts. In terms of sound pressure level (spl), anything consistently higher than 82 decibels is when I start to walk away from a band to prevent hearing damage--based on my probably not accurate smartphone meter. Those decibels are compared to 0db spl which is the threshold of human hearing--the quietest sound.

Meanwhile, in the world of digital audio metering (according to that link), "0 dB FS, or full scale, refers to the maximum value in a fixed point digital system. Therefore, the highest level possible in a fixed point digital audio system is 0 dB FS. If a digital audio signal exceeds 0 dB Full Scale in a fixed point system, digital clipping will occur. Digital audio levels are negative numbers (-12 dB FS, -20 dB FS, etc.). -12 dB FS is 12 decibels lower than the maximum level possible in a fixed point digital system."

I've added this detail for those who are interested. In practice you don't need a degree in audio engineering to run these systems well. But the above is why I look at the Speaker setting in my 30m as a baseline without worrying too much about the theory behind it.

No I recognize all of this, but there’s still been no explanation of why you set the speaker volume like this. Why even have a speaker volume? To be fair, the volume knob on the speaker controls the speaker volume at its most simple function so to turn the thing up if you need to, you’d think they’d want you to turn the speaker up not the main. So that’s why I’ve brought that up like others have…because it kinda makes no sense.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by ZackPomerleau

No I recognize all of this, but there’s still been no explanation of why you set the speaker volume like this. Why even have a speaker volume? To be fair, the volume knob on the speaker controls the speaker volume at its most simple function so to turn the thing up if you need to, you’d think they’d want you to turn the speaker up not the main. So that’s why I’ve brought that up like others have…because it kinda makes no sense.

I look at it like the "Main" is the overall mixer gain to the speaker. But the question remains....how far do you turn that up and when do you start using the "speaker" volume for more volume adjustments. I agree it makes no sense really. The good news is the speaker sounds great either way. Up to this point, I've been leaving "main" on zero and using speaker volume for my overall volume setting and it's been sounding fine, so all this fussing about the main and speaker setting may be for nothing.

[ZackPomerleau]

Originally Posted by JackB1

I look at it like the "Main" is the overall mixer gain to the speaker. But the question remains....how far do you turn that up and when do you start using the "speaker" volume for more volume adjustments. I agree it makes no sense really. The good news is the speaker sounds great either way. Up to this point, I've been leaving "main" on zero and using speaker volume for my overall volume setting and it's been sounding fine, so all this fussing about the main and speaker setting may be for nothing.

That’s how I’ve done it too. And it seems like others who do it differently can’t necessarily describe why you’d do it the other way.

[Teleplucker]

I own the 30M and the 50M and I have been using them several times a week for over a year. I try to think of these level settings in terms of signal to noise.
Run the channel as high as needed but avoid clipping. Run the mixer close to 0 and run the speaker at whatever volume you need for the venue.

If you leave yourself a little room on the mixer output you can stay on that screen to adjust if the overall volume needs to increase. If you need to increase more as the gig goes on you still have room on the "amp" built into the speaker.

Obviously you can achieve the same result by running the amp higher and the mixer lower but you are lowering your sig/noise ratio at the amp. The amp is very quiet but I believe every little bit helps.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by JackB1

What exactly are your "new and improved" settings" Which are you leaving at zero? The "Main" or the "Speaker" volume? What changes did you make to your settings that resulted in better sound?

See post #10 on the first page for the details on the 'new and improved' settings.

I think the term 'Main' refers to the Mixer output level. If you hit Mixer from the top screen you'll see Aux and Main at the bottom. That is what I consider to be the Main output. I set the 'Speaker' volume to zero and control overall volume by the Mixer 'Main'. 'Proper' gain staging starts at the source (so the guitar and mic inputs first), then the Mixer main and last (if needed) the speaker volume.

If I had to guess, I'd say the original issue that cropped up on the EV30/50 Facebook group likely comes from those that are unaware of this 'proper' gain staging order. They don't set their input levels high enough and end up trying to get the needed/desired output level out of the 'Speaker' volume which should come last and then can't get enough because their input levels are too low.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

See post #10 on the first page for the details on the 'new and improved' settings.

I think the term 'Main' refers to the Mixer output level. If you hit Mixer from the top screen you'll see Aux and Main at the bottom. That is what I consider to be the Main output. I set the 'Speaker' volume to zero and control overall volume by the Mixer 'Main'. 'Proper' gain staging starts at the source (so the guitar and mic inputs first), then the Mixer main and last (if needed) the speaker volume.

If I had to guess, I'd say the original issue that cropped up on the EV30/50 Facebook group likely comes from those that are unaware of this 'proper' gain staging order. They don't set their input levels high enough and end up trying to get the needed/desired output level out of the 'Speaker' volume which should come last and then can't get enough because their input levels are too low.

OK thanks. Got it. At my gig tonight, I tried your method of leaving speaker volume at zero and using main for my overall volume. It worked fine but i didn’t notice any difference in the sound compared to how I used to do it (main at zero and adjust speaker volume).

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by JackB1

OK thanks. Got it. At my gig tonight, I tried your method of leaving speaker volume at zero and using main for my overall volume. It worked fine but i didn’t notice any difference in the sound compared to how I used to do it (main at zero and adjust speaker volume).

I'm sure you as a regularly gigging performer probably set your input levels correctly and so it doesn't really matter if you use the Mixer Main or Speaker Volume as your final level. I'm thinking it's just those without that knowledge and experience that don't set their input levels high enough (right at pre-peak) and then try to use their Speaker Volume quickly run out of headroom.

[JakeStone]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I'm sure you as a regularly gigging performer probably set your input levels correctly and so it doesn't really matter if you use the Mixer Main or Speaker Volume as your final level. I'm thinking it's just those without that knowledge and experience that don't set their input levels high enough (right at pre-peak) and then try to use their Speaker Volume quickly run out of headroom.

This makes perfect sense.

When I first read the info from FB and "so called" info from EV rep. I was like what the heck! I was perfectly pleased with how I was achieving my sound.

Obviously, there is more than one way to get great volume and sound out of the Evolve. But correct input "channel" gain is the start!

Regardless of how I get "volume" output to speaker. (Speaker or Main or combo of both)... I seem to get the same quality results. As long as input / channels are high enough.

[ZackPomerleau]

Originally Posted by JakeStone

This makes perfect sense.

When I first read the info from FB and "so called" info from EV rep. I was like what the heck! I was perfectly pleased with how I was achieving my sound.

Obviously, there is more than one way to get great volume and sound out of the Evolve. But correct input "channel" gain is the start!

Regardless of how I get "volume" output to speaker. (Speaker or Main or combo of both)... I seem to get the same quality results. As long as input / channels are high enough.

Glad I’m not not the only one. I get an insane amount of volume from this thing.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I'm sure you as a regularly gigging performer probably set your input levels correctly and so it doesn't really matter if you use the Mixer Main or Speaker Volume as your final level. I'm thinking it's just those without that knowledge and experience that don't set their input levels high enough (right at pre-peak) and then try to use their Speaker Volume quickly run out of headroom.

You can't just set each channel to it's maximum output, since you have to balance the mix across all instruments or channels. I use tracks, which are always the lowest output, so I set that gain first as high as possible and then the rest come in at equal volume levels in the mix.

[ZackPomerleau]

Originally Posted by JackB1

You can't just set each channel to it's maximum output, since you have to balance the mix across all instruments or channels. I use tracks, which are always the lowest output, so I set that gain first as high as possible and then the rest come in at equal volume levels in the mix.

This is probably where volume control of the guitar comes into play.

[calvanesebob]

Just got off the phone with EV, and this is what they told me.

There is no "auto gain". It is a simplified level which is the gain and the fader in one. He said the channels should be set as stated in the manual, and allow a little wiggle room below clipping to get the mix right after you bring in the main volume.

As far as the volume control and the main level control are concerned, they are both essentially the same thing in mixer mode, but only the volume is available in basic mode, so I think in basic mode, it sets all the levels to 0, and you can only control the overall volume, sub, and 3 band EQ.

So for example, if you where using an external mixer, you could use the mixer to get your mix set, use the Evolve in basic mode, and just use the volume, sub, and EQ to the it right for the room.

Anyway, this is what the EV dude told me...

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by calvanesebob

Just got off the phone with EV, and this is what they told me.

There is no "auto gain". It is a simplified level which is the gain and the fader in one. He said the channels should be set as stated in the manual, and allow a little wiggle room below clipping to get the mix right after you bring in the main volume.

As far as the volume control and the main level control are concerned, they are both essentially the same thing in mixer mode, but only the volume is available in basic mode, so I think in basic mode, it sets all the levels to 0, and you can only control the overall volume, sub, and 3 band EQ.

So for example, if you were using an external mixer, you could use the mixer to get your mix set, use the Evolve in basic mode, and just use the volume, sub, and EQ to the it right for the room.

Anyway, this is what the EV dude told me...

Yes, "Basic" turns off the internal mixer and I guess flats everything--though I didn't know there was *any* control left so that's very helpful. So for example in the case of a 50m, it turns it into a 50.

Re the "auto" gain, I had to go back to my first post to see what that was all about, and even just based on my own experience now, that doesn't make sense lol.

[nostatic]

FB is the last place I look for...anything.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by nostatic

FB is the last place I look for...anything.

Funny thing to post, was it supposed to be the hidden gem of knowledge that was going to help someone/anyone out?