Is it really important to have a college degree?

[The Growler]

I'd agree with most of the answers above. It is the way to get in the door. To the employer it shows you're more likely to be trainable and a learner. Unless it is a specialization, it rarely has much linkage to what you'll do for the rest of your life.

I agree with too many going and probably shouldn't and overpaying for the privilege. We have a new hire here, who is doing administrative things like pushing invoices through after graduating from a prestigious, big name school and now owes >$200k in debt. Not sure why she didn't go to a community college for the first couple of years then a state school and save a ton of money. Unless it's the right school with the right major, that's just nuts.

It's not for everyone. Too many parents push their kids to go and they barely got through high school. Then they drop out.

It needs to be better thought through before the time and money are spent.

[Joe F]

When I started with my employer (IT/Telecom field) many years ago, it was not such a big deal. Now they seem to want even their potential Telemarketer candidates to have some sort of degree just to get a toe in the door.

As a member of middle management I've frequently found it disappointing that I have people with MS degrees reporting to me that seem to be completely incapable of doing much of anything requiring common sense or logic, while others with BS degrees can't seem to compose an email that doesn't appear to have been written by someone in elementary school.

Given my preference for the many positions I have in Service Delivery, Service Assurance and Technical Support, I’ll take a military veteran over a college graduate any day.

If I am going to have surgery however, you can bet that I want that surgeon’s wall to be covered with as many diplomas as possible!

[The Growler]

Originally Posted by Joe F

When I started with my employer (IT/Telecom field) many years ago, it was not such a big deal. Now they seem to want even their potential Telemarketer candidates to have some sort of degree just to get a toe in the door.

As a member of middle management, I've frequently found it disappointing that I have people with MS degrees reporting to me that seem to be completely incapable of doing much of anything requiring common sense or logic and others with BS degrees who can't seem to compose an email that doesn't appear to have been written by someone in elementary school.

Given my preference for the many positions I have in Service Delivery, Service Assurance and Technical Support, I’ll take a military veteran over a college graduate any day.

If I am going to have surgery however, you can bet that I want that surgeon’s wall to be covered with as many diplomas as possible!

Yes! I too have Master and MBA holders working for me and they can't write a simple sentence. I worked with a guy who held an MBA in Finance from a top ten school and didn't know the difference between GAAP and pro forma reporting in an annual report. arghhh!

<rant over>.

[Chicago Sandy]

Don’t blame the degree programs for not imparting basic skills--blame our grade and high schools which have slighted the humanities and practical academic skills in favor of revenue-generating team athletics and advanced STEM. We routinely graduate kids who can do complex math but can’t spell, write coherent sentences, balance a checkbook or have the faintest idea of how government works. (Hey, there are apps for all that)! Everyone spouts chapter and verse about the Constitution when it comes to their favorite freedoms--but most people draw a blank about the structure of the Federal gov’t and what each branch can and cannot do. (That stuff is in the boring original Articles). Most people can’t name their state legislators or the current SCOTUS justices, a large plurality can’t identify their Congressional district # or name of their Representative, and many can’t name even one of their Senators.

And don’t even get me started on the death of public-school music education. You’d be shocked at how many people can’t tell a half note from a half-Nelson, look like deer in the headlights when you ask them to clap “on the 2 and the 4,” or even name notes beyond “do-re-mi” (and without singing the song to boot). We learned all that stuff--in NYC public schools--by the 4th grade.

Of course, we never had to buy textbooks until college--and the schools even provided most supplies beyond notebooks, pencils and crayons. Our teachers weren’t expected to buy ANY of that out of their own pockets.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

And don’t even get me started on the death of public-school music education. You’d be shocked at how many people can’t tell a half note from a half-Nelson,

But THAT is entirely worthless information (as far as getting and keeping a job) . . unless your job is in the music business.

[Wardo]

I went into the beer store in the hick town where I'm from and asked the 20 something girl at the cash for 36 cans of Coors. She looked at me with a blank stare. I asked her again for the beer and said Coors Regular thinking maybe she didn't know if I wanted Coors Light or Regular. Still nothing. Finally the guy who was running the empties counter said to her "that's a 12 and a 24 pack." She said "OMG! I am so bad at math." I kinda felt sorry for her and she seemed embarrassed but at least she has a job for life in the beer store gotta be better than McDonald's...lol

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Wardo

"that's a 12 and a 24 pack."

No, it's three 12-packs.

Wait, it's six 6-packs.

[NormH3]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

Don’t blame the degree programs for not imparting basic skills--blame our grade and high schools which have slighted the humanities and practical academic skills in favor of revenue-generating team athletics and advanced STEM. We routinely graduate kids who can do complex math but can’t spell, write coherent sentences, balance a checkbook or have the faintest idea of how government works. (Hey, there are apps for all that)! Everyone spouts chapter and verse about the Constitution when it comes to their favorite freedoms--but most people draw a blank about the structure of the Federal gov’t and what each branch can and cannot do. (That stuff is in the boring original Articles). Most people can’t name their state legislators or the current SCOTUS justices, a large plurality can’t identify their Congressional district # or name of their Representative, and many can’t name even one of their Senators.

And don’t even get me started on the death of public-school music education. You’d be shocked at how many people can’t tell a half note from a half-Nelson, look like deer in the headlights when you ask them to clap “on the 2 and the 4,” or even name notes beyond “do-re-mi” (and without singing the song to boot). We learned all that stuff--in NYC public schools--by the 4th grade.

Of course, we never had to buy textbooks until college--and the schools even provided most supplies beyond notebooks, pencils and crayons. Our teachers weren’t expected to buy ANY of that out of their own pockets.

Ok...I may not know what a half-note is, but I do know that Half Nelson was Ricky's older brother. (sorry...sometimes I can't help myself. I'm here all week.)

[lmacmil]

The Steve Jobs/Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg types are outliers that come along once in a generation. Many of the top tech executives have advanced degrees (the Google founders for example.)

If you are smart enough to found your own company then you don't need a degree. If you want to be an engineer at a tech or large manufacturing company, a degree is just about a necessity.

[amyFB]

I quit high school the second week of junior year - because I didn't think they were teaching me anything useful for living.

I never lacked for a job and I believe the reason is largely because of my reading and comprehension skills, and my ability to self-assign. If I want to know how to do something, and I can't figure it out by trying, then I find the instructions and if I'm still having trouble, I find a mentor.

Once, I attended six weeks of a business course at a local community college, for no reason except because I had tuition reimbursement. When I considered signing on for a 2 year program, I tested so poorly on math that I was told I'd have to take a year of remedial math first. (didja hear that door slam on my way out?)

Math continues to be my weakest skill, but, I've learned how to check myself and to use others to verify my work before I rely on it for business decisions.

It is my firm belief that reading and comprehension are the two most important skills needed to advance in the job market.

I see a big difference in the college grads from the 70s and earlier compared to the later grads. Critical thinking is missing from the younger folks, and I am convinced that reading and comprehension are the first requirement to be a critical thinker.

I don't think a college degree is required for all jobs. I do think effective education is necessary and the trick is getting hooked up with a good teacher.

interesting thread!

yours in tune and books all over

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by NormH3

Ok...I may not know what a half-note is, but I do know that Half Nelson was Ricky's older brother. (sorry...sometimes I can't help myself. I'm here all week.)

No, they were both half-Nelsons. Ozzie was the full Nelson. Try the veal, it’s delicious. Don’t forget our lovely casino.....

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by lmacmil

The Steve Jobs/Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg types are outliers that come along once in a generation. Many of the top tech executives have advanced degrees (the Google founders for example.)

If you are smart enough to found your own company then you don't need a degree. If you want to be an engineer at a tech or large manufacturing company, a degree is just about a necessity.

Speaking of “outliers,” the bulk of the tens of thousands of hours spent honing their computer/tech skills are normally available to most people only at institutions of higher learning. From what I’ve read, I believe Gates very nearly graduated from Harvard but skipped commencement exercises (he might even have earned enough credits but never followed through). It is a very rare individual with the intellect sufficient to acquire--and develop or apply--the amount and type of knowledge that those three did outside of an academic setting. Jobs in fact did audit classes at Stanford and attended Reed College for a while. The reason these three did not obtain degrees was that they were so extraordinary that continuing formal study became an obstacle to devoting the time and energy towards achieving their goals (or they achieved them before officially completing a course of study--which explains SUNY Purchase’s BA in Theater program’s relatively low graduation rate: their students often get hired in TV and on B’way long before graduating; and since becoming working actors was their motivation to attend anyway....)

[epluribus36]

I feel uniquely qualified to chime in on this topic. I started going to college in 1980, when I was just out of high school, started out majoring in journalism, wanted to be a reporter like Clark Kent. Then I dropped out for a couple of years, came back, majored in music, changed to English, then changed to education, wanted to be a teacher. Got in a bunch of trouble, pretty much got ran out of my hometown and state.

After that I worked lots of varied jobs, and finally stumbled into electronics, where I ended up, and will probably retire from in a few years. Just got my bachelor's degree in 2013, and guess what major emphasis I got it in? General Studies. Whoopee!

I got Pell grants (free money) throughout to pay my tuition, and ended up in thousands of dollars' worth of student loan debt, which I just got paid off in 2005.

The moral of the story is, don't go to college unless you know exactly what you want to major in. Work jobs until you find something you like. My $.02.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

But THAT is entirely worthless information (as far as getting and keeping a job) . . unless your job is in the music business.

This is linear thinking taken to an extreme. First, a vital purpose of school is not just to provide fodder for the commercial world, but to turn out well-adjusted, rounded (and we're not talking waist sizes here, although you wouldn't know it! ) individuals. Second, creating a competent, productive and imaginative work-force is not about shaping a student into a mold and then shoving him into the correct professional hole; a broad education should help to equip students with learning strategies and skills that they can apply to a wide range of jobs.

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by architype

If you want to be in one of the "Professions" you don't have a choice. All require a professional degree and some more than 4 years. Plus a professional internship and a State Board licensing exam and then continuing education credits to maintain your license.

Medicine
Law
Accounting
Engineering
Architecture
Pharmacy
Teacher/Professor

If you want to be an entrapenuer/self employed business person you don't need a degree in anything.

There is no degree or license required to be an accountant in Pa.
You can teach in Pa without a degree or a license .
As far as law , I find it distressing that the bar exam cannot be administered to a non college graduate .