Chord Melody Vs Fingerstyle

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by TBman

I've seen (and actually heard) chord melody,

We used to have a member post some very good sounding arrangements in S&T some time back. The arrangements always looked overly difficult with a lot of barre chords and flopping around where in my mind, a triad or two would have worked as well. But it was music and good music too.

The style always struck me as a rhythm guitar player trying to play a finger style arrangement, but didn't want to go the full monty

Whatever it takes. There's even some percussive (gasp) stuff that I like.

I'm a bit of a guitar snob, I think that's obvious. I don't think strumming and singing is in the same universe as classical guitar or good fingerstyle, but the strumming and singing folks make the bucks while driving a BMW and the classical people drive Fords,

You hit on something that I have also commented in some posts in the past. What I have encountered is that when people see me with a guitar, the first thing they want to know is either "do you sing" or "why don't you sing". For many, the guitar is little more than a prop or maybe something to strum a bit while you are singing. Playing strictly instrumental doesn't seem to hold most people's interest unless it is an audience who specifically came to see that, such as a classical guitar concert.

This used to bother me because I felt what was the point of spending time and effort learning to play fingerstyle instrumental pieces if nobody cared. My solution to that was to instead find music that I could enjoy playing for myself without regard for whether others were interested in what I was doing or not.

I don't share your attitude toward chord melody, but that doesn't matter to me. We each like what we like. I can enjoy the music you have posted and think you do a fine job of it. As for percussive guitar, I have had to listen to a fair amount to find anything that I like. What I have found is that there are some who weave it into the rest of their playing so it adds a bit of flavor but doesn't intrude, and that I can enjoy.

For me, playing chord melody is all about working out arrangements in real time. In a way, it is a bit like my wife working on her word puzzles. I work on building my musical vocabulary and applying it. I can open a fakebook to a tune and come up with a a chord melody arrangement and then play with that to apply fingerstyle movement so it isn't static chord to chord stuff. I enjoy playing with harmony, finding different ways to harmonize a melody and I love those big, rich, lush chords.

For me, memorizing somebody else's arrangement of a tune is way too tedious. I just don't have the patience nor the memory capacity for that. I always want to do it my own way and not have to remember how I did it the last time I played it. If somebody does something that catches my ear, I may learn enough to understand what that was and incorporate it into my own "bag of tricks". But that is just me. I respect those who do play another's arrangement and do it well. Daria Semikina, who used to post around here some years ago, has done a really nice job playing some of Masaaki Kishibe's arrangements for example in her collection she calls "Heartstrings".

I think the person you mentioned who used to post in the "Show and Tell" section called himself SteveJazzx. I agree that he did a fine job with his performances and I miss that. I hope he is doing well.

Tony

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I think the person you mentioned who used to post in the "Show and Tell" section called himself SteveJazzx. I agree that he did a fine job with his performances and I miss that. I hope he is doing well.
Tony

Steve still posts on Show and Tell now and then. Last one not too long ago here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=669929

Personally I grew up mainly listening to classical music by such as Beethoven, Brahms, Debussy, Chopin. Guitar wise such as Segovia and Bream. Other influences came later.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Steve still posts on Show and Tell now and then. Last one not too long ago here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=669929

Personally I grew up mainly listening to classical music by such as Beethoven, Brahms, Debussy, Chopin. Guitar wise such as Segovia and Bream. Other influences came later.

Thanks rick-slo. It is good to know he still posts. I always enjoyed his playing.

I grew up on Top 40 radio since my parents really didn't listen to much music. For them, it was always the news that they chose to listen to.

After leaving home and getting exposed to a wider range of music, I took to folk music and then I heard Leo Kottke. That was when my interest in playing guitar took off.

My interest in chord melody came about when my full time job was playing in a trio professionally as a sideman. I was in my mid-20s. We played supper clubs, resorts, the Holiday Inn circuit, etc. We played a lot of standards and generally what was known as MOR (middle of the road, soft rock, ballads). But it wasn't just chord melody for me. I learned to play piano in the cocktail ballad style (which is essentially what chord melody really is) from a self-study tape series by a guy named David Sudnow. I found a lot of beauty in those standards that I just wasn't ready for until that point in my life.

I think that if I was maybe 50 years younger than I currently am, I may well have taken to the "slapping and tapping" style. I still enjoy the Windham Hill and Narada musicians, which were largely prior to the slapping and tapping until Michael Hedges came along. He did interesting stuff, but the follow-ons, not so much for me for some reason. To me, Michael Hedges was more of an artist than a technician, and his music reflects that for me.

Tony

[sprucetophere]

In my (purely academic?) effort to more clearly understand what is typically considered an example of chord melody, would you consider the following examples? I'm assuming that, like most things, the concept is not a dichotomy, but rather a spectrum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EDPu2N0jg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kid5...?v=ZYBxfreggks

And this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYBxfreggks

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by sprucetophere

In my (purely academic?) effort to more clearly understand what is typically considered an example of chord melody, would you consider the following examples? I'm assuming that, like most things, the concept is not a dichotomy, but rather a spectrum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EDPu2N0jg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kid5...?v=ZYBxfreggks

And this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYBxfreggks

I would consider those fingerpickin'.

Here is an example of what I consider chord melody:



Of, course, it seems clear to me that the term "chord melody" can mean different things to different people and there really is no overriding consensus on what the term actually means, which is why I used the phrase "what I consider" to clearly indicate I am only speaking for myself and what the term conjures up for me.

Tony

[TBman]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I think the person you mentioned who used to post in the "Show and Tell" section called himself SteveJazzx. I agree that he did a fine job with his performances and I miss that. I hope he is doing well.

Tony

Tony, no it isn't SteveJazzx. I think it was Gerhard or something like that. SteveJazzx is more of a classical/fingerstyle player to me, but I haven't seen all of his videos. Great stuff, regardless.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by TBman

Tony, no it isn't SteveJazzx. I think it was Gerhard or something like that. SteveJazzx is more of a classical/fingerstyle player to me, but I haven't seen all of his videos. Great stuff, regardless.

OK. Thanks. Then I am unfortunately not familiar with the player you were referring to. If you do think of the name enough to search on, please post it because You definitely have my interest. I will search on "Gerhard" and similar.

Tony

[TBman]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

OK. Thanks. Then I am unfortunately not familiar with the player you were referring to. If you do think of the name enough to search on, please post it because You definitely have my interest. I will search on "Gerhard" and similar.

Tony

My memory didn't serve me well at all, I found the member I was thinking of, but his style was fingerstyle, just played with a lot of effort. NVM.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by TBman

My memory didn't serve me well at all, I found the member I was thinking of, but his style was fingerstyle, just played with a lot of effort. NVM.

Oh, OK. Thanks for posting on it. I am 70 and am getting really frustrated with my increasing inability to remember stuff. Maybe that is why I got further into chord melody where, rather than memorizing a fingerstyle arrangement, I can work from a fakebook leadsheet.

For me, a chord vocabulary seems easier to memorize, probably because I am using it over and over on different tunes rather than having to memorize a tune and then another and then another. I still enjoy listening to fingerstyle though. I even have my Amazon Echo Dot play it quite a bit ("Alexa, play Alex DeGrassi...").

Tony

[sprucetophere]

Thanks Frank, I'm wondering what musicians you like to listen to that you view as playing in this style.

Thanks

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

I don't think of myself as a model, certainly my playing is more inconsistent and hit and miss than a great many here.

But you asked. The key "aha" for me was simply to observe that when I was using a thumb and fingers I was alternating strikes, rarely using two digits at exactly the same time. I started to just move the single point of a flat pick from the lower strings ("bass notes") to the upper strings (rest of chord or melody notes), skipping back and forth.

One might think that skipping back and forth on the strings is challenging. It may be for some, but to my outlook, it's no tougher than what we ask the left hand to do on the fretboard: if we ask the left hand to move to various strings to fret notes and chords, so moving the more dexterous hand holding a pick is possible. In the same way we learn where to fret chords by muscle memory of where to put the fretting fingers, we can learn where the strings are under the right hand and a pick's tip.

I can't do the top speed in notes per minute a fleet finger-picker can, but tempos in the supersonic range I'm willing to give up.

For the occasional extra note I used to use fretting hand hammer-ons, where no pick is needed. My old joints are less happy to do that these day as much.

As with all composition or playing, it's the notes not the method used to sound them that the listener cares about. My limits as a player limit me somewhat as a composer, but a better player who practices more could extend what I can do with my self-taught cross-picking.

Here's a recent example, of me playing in a somewhat pianistic style using a single flat pick (no tapping or hammer-ons). In a blindfold test I'd guess most listeners would think I was fingerpicking with a thumb and finger picks.

Lightly from Aldous Huxley's Island (played with my crosspicking style)

[TBman]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Oh, OK. Thanks for posting on it. I am 70 and am getting really frustrated with my increasing inability to remember stuff. Maybe that is why I got further into chord melody where, rather than memorizing a fingerstyle arrangement, I can work from a fakebook leadsheet.

For me, a chord vocabulary seems easier to memorize, probably because I am using it over and over on different tunes rather than having to memorize a tune and then another and then another. I still enjoy listening to fingerstyle though. I even have my Amazon Echo Dot play it quite a bit ("Alexa, play Alex DeGrassi...").

Tony

I'm a Can't Remember S guy too since my stroke in 2017. So I just read from the notation. I know something is ready to record when I mostly don't take my eyes off the paper and of course it sounds right too. At least we can still play (knocking on wood here)

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm a Can't Remember S guy too since my stroke in 2017. So I just read from the notation. I know something is ready to record when I mostly don't take my eyes off the paper and of course it sounds right too. At least we can still play (knocking on wood here)

True enough. We find ways to keep doing what we need to do, and guitar is something I don't want to give up any time soon.

Tony

[RichardN]

Originally Posted by Gryf

Way too many words here being used to describe playing the guitar with your fingers. I play the guitar with no picks, using my fingers, and playing many, many different styles of music. Call it whatever you like, I just call it playing my guitar.

^^^Yes, this^^^

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by sprucetophere

Thanks Frank, I'm wondering what musicians you like to listen to that you view as playing in this style.

Thanks

Alas, that's one of the funny things about my self-taught solution: I've never seen anyone play like I play. I've never had the money or time to see as many acts as some have seen, but I've seen many of my heroes up-close live or in good video, and they play with thumb and fingers or more conventional strumming with accent notes.*

I never saw Doc Watson, and I wouldn't compare myself to him, but he is likely doing what I do at a higher level in some of his playing. Possibly also Norman Blake.

I grew up on The Sixties for acoustic guitarists: Besides the general folk singers it was Fahey and the Takoma roster, Jansch and Renbourn in the UK. Later on then Joni Mitchell, Richard Thompson and Nick Drake. All were finger pickers. Despite my self-taught and not-highly-skilled technique, that's who I try to sound approximately like, despite using only a flat pick.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I would consider those fingerpickin'.

Here is an example of what I consider chord melody:

I think that sort of arrangement sounds great. I'd love to get an electric and do some of that (also throw something in a loop and fool around with leads as well). Maybe next year when I'm fully retired.