Clean amp for strumming an electric

[gnobuddy]

Originally Posted by GuitarFan808

So continuing along with the tube vs. Solid State amps, if you compared the Frontman 212 and the Super Champ XD (both listed at $300), which one (to your ears) has better cleans for strumming solo and leading the worship at a small chapel?

To my ears, there is no comparison at all - the Super Champ XD sounds vastly better. As good as many tube amps with four digits in the price tag. Search You Tube for "Don Anderson Super Champ" and try listening to some of his demos - the "Pinky Blues" one is a good example, as is the one where he does Santana's "Samba Pa Te". Both those use the distorted channel, of course, but in his first one or two reviews of the various voices in the SCXD, he plays a little through the clean channel, and comments that it sounds great.

Over on tdpri.com (Telecaster forum) there is a long thread on the SCXD that is worth a read if you're still not convinced that this is an amp worth taking the time to listen to. You'll read a lot of raves from people who were really taken aback by how good this little amp can sound. You'll also read posts by a few people who didn't like it, or who had some problem or the other with it.

Keep in mind the SCXD has one 10" speaker, while the Frontman 212 makes its nasty noises through two 12" speakers. So you will get more bass from the Frontman. But for beauty of tone, the Frontman can't get within a mile of the SCXD in my opinion.

A lot of guitarists who already own a 1x12 or 2x12 guitar speaker cab just plug the SCXD's speaker-out jack into it, so you get both the lovely sound of the SCXD and the benefit of the big speakers.

Truthfully, I've never heard a Frontman that I wanted to sit and listen to. I have only minimal listening time with a 212 (in a store), but it sounded pretty sterile and mildly unpleasant to me. Not hideous, but certainly not attractive either, and I experienced ear fatigue quite quickly while listening to it. In other words, within a few minutes I just wanted to get away from the thing and rest my ears.

Not exactly what most guitarists are looking for from an amp, unless they want to drive away their audience!

-Gnobuddy

[gnobuddy]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

A good solid state amp usually costs a lot more than $200.

I think that has to do with marketing and fat profit margins more than anything else. I know my way around solid-state electronics fairly well, and today most if not all the solid-state guitar amps out there use the same mass-produced audio chips through the audio chain. The op-amps that initially process the signal when it enters the amp cost literally pennies each in quantity. The chip power amps that drive the speaker may cost a buck or two. They're amazingly cheap!

So the actual cost of the electronics in these amps is tiny - rarely more than a few dollars. Typically, the switches, pots, knobs, and enclosure cost much much more than the electronics, and, except for the enclosure, have no effect on the sound quality at all. Those cheap chip amps don't affect the sound quality either - all but the worst of them are 100% clean for all practical purposes, right up to the point when they're overloaded and burst into harsh clipping distortion.

So, as far as sound goes for a solid-state guitar amp, the most important part is the loudspeaker, the actual enclosure (which works with the loudspeaker), and any equalization built into the amp. These are much trickier to get right. Any half-wit out of engineering college can design most of the electronics and get them right, but good loudspeaker system designers are few and far between. It's as much art as science, and nobody teaches you how to do it in college - most of the good ones learn from an older designer, or figure it out slowly over years of experience.

That's where that $200 Acoustic AG-30 shines - it's big, bulky, and heavy, but in exchange you get a superbly neutral-sounding loudspeaker and enclosure. You can play a CD through this thing and it sounds as good as many home stereo systems. Put male or female vocals through it and they come out sounding great - louder without any alteration of the singers voice. It sounds more clean and neutral than $400 and $500 competitors I auditioned in the store. I've used it as a small P.A. for guitar and vocals, and just about every singer who used it commented on how good it sounded.

People who want the heavily processed sound of a Fender Acoustasonic amp won't like the AG-30. Those Fenders completely alter the sound, while the AG-30 is clean and neutral.

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

My only point was to say that a lot of people find solid state amps to be inferior to tubes because they want them to do the same thing a tube amp does.

I agree with you 100%, particularly that solid-state amps don't produce distorted sounds as good as a tube amp.

But personally I think that solid-body and semi-hollow electrics sound better with a good tube amp, even when played "clean". That's because the best guitar "clean" tones really aren't completely clean at all - they involve several percent of harmonic distortion, which is too little to actually be heard as guitar break-up, but enough to sweeten the tone. So you can play your jazzy eleventh chord and still hear it as an eleventh, but it just sounds a little sweeter than the same eleventh chord played through a completely clean amp. Tube amps naturally produce this sort of low-level distortion at low drive levels - and solid state amps don't.

By comparison, Hi-Fi clean is usually under 0.1% harmonic distortion these days. Even those cheap chip amps I mentioned earlier achieve these sorts of numbers routinely. And that's why most solid-state amps for guitars sound sterile - they're too clean, lacking those few percent of harmonic distortion to pretty-up the "clean" tone.

Still, in the end, good sound is subjective, so all this comes down to what I personally prefer. And, truth be told, I'd much rather listen to a good guitarist playing through a solid-state amp than a bad one playing through a great tube amp!

-Gnobuddy

[NewMartinFan]

Originally Posted by jrporter

Love the clean tones of my Fender Blues Jr. NOS http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...Amp?sku=483711

This is what I use with my Mayer Strat. Good cleans at an affordable price. You can get better clean tones, but not without spending more money.

[dmann]

almost any fender or roland.

[TomRC]

I did a lot of research on this subject recently reading forum after forum to try to find a highly recommended but affordable tube amp. What I found through this research was one amp being suggested over and over…Super Champ XD….. Super Champ XD….. Super Champ XD….. Super Champ XD….. Super Champ XD. Not the newer version but the older and recently discontinued XD. I got lucky about a month ago and found a new one at a store. WOW…….the clean channel on this amp sounds as good to me as anything I’ve hear that costs three times as much. If you can find one I’d jump on it!!!

[NewMartinFan]

Originally Posted by GuitarFan808

Right on, guys!! Thanks for your inputs.

Bob, I have been thinking about the Mesa Boogie Express--I've heard good things about their cleans. But I have to be very careful because I'm a recovering metal head , so if the option is there for heavy gain distortion (which Mesa Boogies have), my foot may "accidentally" hit the footswitch and I'll be chugging away to some old metallica (which is not what I want to be doing at my chapel). But nonetheless, I am weighing on getting the Express.

Rick, thanks for sharing about the small wattage solid state amps not being good for cleans--being that I can get pretty heavy with my strumming, I can see your point about the sound clipping and distorting at certain levels. Do you think the Fender Frontman 212 can take occasional hard strummings on its clean side without breaking up and distorting?

Of course, like you said GuitarArmy, the Roland JC120 is known for their cleans. That also will be in consideration.

I have the Mesa Boogie Express 5:25. It has BEAUTIFUL cleans. I would absolutely recommend it if the Mesa is within your budget.

[williejohnson]

There is no cleaner amp on the planet than a Fender '59 Bassman Reissue. I don't know what your budget is but you cannot find a better clean amp. Here are the specs:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...59-bassman-ltd

[lucky]

Not sure its been mentioned--but for clean strumming on an electric, the best amp I've heard is the ZT Lunchbox or Club.

Cheers!
lucky

[saneff]

The best clean amp I have ever heard is a Laney Lionheart L5t 112. I have one, and it is just unreal. Best amp anywhere near that range I have ever heard. Do a YouTube search on it and you will see some demos that will knock your socks off. I also have a Fender Blues Deluxe RI and it also has terrific cleans and takes pedals well too. Great amp and it's a tweed so it looks good too. I have a Vox AC15C1 and I also recommend it. ALl 3 are great amps. But all in all, the best amp is that Lionheart. It's only 5 watts, but it gets plenty loud believe me. Awesome, awesome amp. If you go over to The Gear Page, you will see raves about it in clean amp discussions. It might have more raves than any amp out there.

[jayhawk]

I haven't seen how much your willing to spend...

I'm one of those guys that prefers a tube amp for electric.

That being said if you want to stay on a budget try finding Tech21 Trademark 30. Very underrated little amp. A great bedroom amp but big enough to take to rehearsals. Its interesting in that it is all solid state but all analog circuitry. I had one and sold to when I bought my Mesa. Wished I had kept it.

If you want to spend some money I highly recommend the Mesa Transatlantic 15. It is a lunchbox size amp that does a good job of covering Fender, Marshall and Vox sounds. I know a number of professionals that have one as their backup amp. Not quite so on the Mesa heavy distortion. I'm not a big Mesa fan but I love this amp. I play it through an Avalon cab with a Celestion G12H30. Great sound.

Fender is always a good choice for a clean sound.

The Roland Cubes are great choices.

When you get your PRS go out to some shops and plug it into amps until you find what you like.

Jack

[terrapin]

It is not just clean amp "tone" you need for "strumming chords". You need the note-to-not clarity that comes from the right speaker. The cleanest sounding amp with the wrong speaker is going to sound muddy with chord work although it may sound great with singl-note playing.

I would HIGHLy recommend you look into the Jense Neo 100 10' or 12' speakers (depending on what the amp needs). These speakers are incredibly efficient and the note-to-not clarity is outstanding. I have used both the 10" and 12" models and they are so nice.

[mcoliver77]

11 months of buying and selling acoustic guitars in my quest for that 'tone' in my head, I was about to do the same on amps when I got my first electric a month or two ago.

I'm thankful I managed to stop myself this time and, instead, try them out before committing. Narrowed the search to three so far; Egnater Tweaker, Laney Lionheart L5T 112 and the VHT Special 12/20. The Genz Benz Black Pearl 30 & Port City 12 Amp are good options as well but I find them above my budget.

But there's no denying I'm also enjoying the sound I get out of my old, cheap Kustom Sienna 16 acoustic amp. I just cheat a bit by putting an Okko Diablo Gain+ pedal in front of it, tweaked near the point of break-up.

I say, plug that electric in whatever amp you have first. Who knows you might also enjoy what you'll be hearing.

[utterhack]

Originally Posted by GuitarFan808

Is there an electric amp you'd recommend for a person who only wants a clean sound for strumming?

[doublescale1]

Not to beat a overly dead horse, but the Fender Super Champ XD will give you all you need, including an Acoustic setting so you can use the amp for both electric and acoustic guitars if you need to - in addition you'll get some better than most Overdrive pre-amp settings that can indulge you when the mood strikes - the XD has been discontinued and can be found used for great deals - the new amp that replaces it, Super Champ X2 is still shipping as a 1X10 combo but also now a head and cab - it streets for about 249 new - look for a used XD, great value and plenty of amp with a classic blackface high headroom setting for what your describing as your needs.

[michael s]

Wow. Just finished reading this thread. Want to try the Fender Super Champ XD but I have a question. What is the difference between the older model and the newer SCXD? I'd hate to buy the newer model if it has lost the pazazz of the older model.