X7 blues, anyone pulled the pickup ? help?

jdinco · #1 04-16-2019, 08:15 PM

I have to be a man and admit that I am still having a problem bonding with my new X7. I like the fit and feel, but there's no depth to the tone at all, it comes across as flat sounding. It's by far the worse sounding guitar I have, the Martin D Jr kills it, and I think they should be a lot closer in quality for the price of a X7. So I was wondering if anyone has compared an Emerald with the Baggs Element to the same guitar without the Element. My X20 has no pickup and sounds great, when I read others making statements about the X7 being close to the X20 and such, it makes me wonder what my problem might be. I'm done swapping strings and it had a pro setup that made it playable, but didn't help the tone much. Open to any suggestions.....thanks.
Does anyone have Alistairs email address? I was going to return it, but was a couple days too late. My fault for not knowing the rules. Kevin more or less just said..."sorry"

steelvibe · #2 04-16-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdinco

I have to be a man and admit that I am still having a problem bonding with my new X7. I like the fit and feel, but there's no depth to the tone at all, it comes across as flat sounding. It's by far the worse sounding guitar I have, the Martin D Jr kills it, and I think they should be a lot closer in quality for the price of a X7. So I was wondering if anyone has compared an Emerald with the Baggs Element to the same guitar without the Element. My X20 has no pickup and sounds great, when I read others making statements about the X7 being close to the X20 and such, it makes me wonder what my problem might be. I'm done swapping strings and it had a pro setup that made it playable, but didn't help the tone much. Open to any suggestions.....thanks.
Does anyone have Alistairs email address? I was going to return it, but was a couple days too late. My fault for not knowing the rules. Kevin more or less just said..."sorry"

Every acoustic I've owned with the exception of my first Ovation- the videos led me there. If the recording is done with quality gear in a quality room you will get a very good idea of how a guitar sounds (and of course not plugged in). I will say that as much as I like the looks of the new X7 (it is my favorite in all Emerald's line up) I've not heard a video yet that wows me. I know, videos are not supposed to be an accurate representation but when I bought a Shorty the videos are what took me there. When I finally got to play one it was like the videos but better- the tone was close enough.

The X20 on the other hand, now that sounds like a real winner. Good luck John!

jdinco · #3 04-16-2019, 08:32 PM

You might be right Sean, thanks for the reply. I'm not giving up yet....is it easy to pull the UST into the body with out doing any damage?

Methos1979 · #4 04-16-2019, 08:40 PM

I love my X7 unplugged. The smaller body guitar means it 'suffers' from that mid-range boxiness that affects most all small body guitars. Unplugged it's not all that noticeable to me and the X7 is my preferred go-to guitar for grabbing off the wall and playing/noodling around unplugged.

Plugged in is a different story. I put a K&K in mine and that mid-range boxiness is definitely a struggle to tame. I can't say if it's better or worse with a UST saddle vs. the SBT that is the K&K. The source for me is the sympathetic vibrations of the open G string when I fret the low E on the third (G) fret. This sets the open G off big time.

I have found I can tame this a great deal with the notch filter on the VE-8. With the X20 it's the open A that needs taming mostly. But with the X7 it's that sympathetic G. I have played around a LOT with the EQ settings on both the VE-8 and the Headway EDM-1 and I can get a decent amplified sound on my X7 but not nearly as good as the X20.

All that said I have never owned any acoustic guitar that did not have a challenge dialing in a great tone. Part of that is my playing style of fingers with no nails. It makes for a muted tone that requires more gain and a lot more EQ to get a decent amplified tone.

If my X7 had the X20 neck and tone I'd sell the X20 as I'd never play it. But the X20 has become the defacto go-to gig guitar and the X7 is the off-the-wall noodler. I have an outdoor gig coming up that I might play the X7 at since I've found the outdoor shows are much more forgiving with amplifying.

jdinco · #5 04-16-2019, 10:12 PM

Thanks Methos, I rarely ever plug my X7 into an amp. I should have mentioned that.

jonfields45 · #6 04-17-2019, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdinco

You might be right Sean, thanks for the reply. I'm not giving up yet....is it easy to pull the UST into the body with out doing any damage?

Yes, but you will want to shim the saddle to compensate for the missing UST. If you've got an old insurance ID card they cut easily into thin strips for a quick fix. I've installed quite a few Element USTs over the years (though a lot more K&K/JJB SBTs) and have never noticed a change in the guitar's tone afterward. There is a huge hearing with your eyes problem in evaluating pickups amplified or acoustically...

raysachs · #7 04-17-2019, 08:49 AM

I think this stuff is so much personal preference it's really hard to know why one person loves how something sounds and another person never warms up to it. I play unplugged about 99% of the time, occasionally plugging in to record something into a looper or a recorder, but more often I just play into a mic for the recorder.

I had an X20 and a new X7 and I liked them both, but I like the unplugged sound of the X7 MORE than the X20, which I know is not a common reaction. The X20 had a real high end shimmer that a lot of people no doubt really love, but I was always trying to tame it by trying different strings. I liked the guitar a lot, but there was that aspect of the sound I didn't love. The X7 doesn't have that. It's not quite as loud overall either, but it sounds just about perfect to me for my needs and preferences.

It may be that taking out the pickup will help, but I think most of us who really do like the X7 like it just fine with the pickup in. I might like it marginally more with it out, but I really like having the option of plugging in, as infrequently as I do it, so I'm not tempted to chase that last percentage point of tone by removing it. I think for the most part we tend to like guitars or not and there's no accounting for personal taste. You may be able to tweak it and get it closer to what you're looking for, but it also just might not be the guitar for you. I've gone through a few that weren't for me and I generally knew it relatively quickly. I wouldn't sweat it if it's not - the resale on new-ish Emeralds is pretty good. I recently sold a couple and consider the small losses I took to be highly reasonable rental rates for the months I had them...

-Ray

GuitarLuva · #8 04-17-2019, 08:50 AM

If I were you I would buy a bone saddle, remove the element UST as I find it has a pretty significant impact on the acoustic voice of a guitar. Install a SBT if you still want a pickup and I would recommend the Schatten HFN as it's simple to install and sounds awesome. The Baggs element can be removed easily. Don't give up yet, with the change to a bone saddle and the element removed I can almost guarantee a drastic tonal change, hopefully one that will like better.

#9 04-17-2019, 09:25 AM

I've had very little experience with the 7 acoustic. However, my thin-bodied electric 7 has fantastic tonal qualities plugged and unplugged. Even Alistair was a bit amazed. I have the Barbera pickup in the 7E. I'm not sure if it's the pickup, but the guitar sounds a lot better plugged in than my previous guitars with other pickups.

jdinco · #10 04-17-2019, 09:56 AM

Thanks to all for the comments, suggestions and support. I do like the bone saddle idea. Everything about the X7 is so much to my liking (except the tone I'm getting) I want to see if I can better it. It won't take much to get it there I think. It is so close.

Barb1 · #11 04-17-2019, 02:43 PM

Jdinco,
I put a bone saddle in my X7 and it sounds great. Try one!
Barb

jdinco · #12 04-17-2019, 08:26 PM

Thank you Barb, it is in the plans. Good to hear another one that tried the bone with good results.

Aspiring · #13 04-20-2019, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdinco

Thank you Barb, it is in the plans. Good to hear another one that tried the bone with good results.

I ordered a bone saddle for my x7 nylon from macnichol as the closest I could find to the dimensions and worked on shaping it. I like it better than stock but I'm still considering changing the pickup out to a schatten or similar that does not go under the saddle.

While making up my new saddle I did see just how sensitive the guitar is to having a very flush square cut on the bottom of the saddle. The tone and volume varies considerably for slight changes there.

GuitarLuva · #14 04-20-2019, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aspiring

I ordered a bone saddle for my x7 nylon from macnichol as the closest I could find to the dimensions and worked on shaping it. I like it better than stock but I'm still considering changing the pickup out to a schatten or similar that does not go under the saddle.

While making up my new saddle I did see just how sensitive the guitar is to having a very flush square cut on the bottom of the saddle. The tone and volume varies considerably for slight changes there.

Funny, I did both of these things. I ordered a few bone saddles from MacNichol guitars. That stock tusq saddle on the Emeralds sure does have a lot of compensation on it, kinda makes ya wonder. I shaped one saddle and installed it on my X30 and I love the difference it made. I'm trying to dye a couple of them black to keep the same dark theme.

The Schatten HFN is an awesome pickup. I have another one on the way for my X20.

Aspiring · #15 04-20-2019, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Funny, I did both of these things. I ordered a few bone saddles from MacNichol guitars. That stock tusq saddle on the Emeralds sure does have a lot of compensation on it, kinda makes ya wonder. I shaped one saddle and installed it on my X30 and I love the difference it made. I'm trying to dye a couple of them black to keep the same dark theme.

The Schatten HFN is an awesome pickup. I have another one on the way for my X20.

For the compensation it is interesting. The steel x7 I tried before had a very nice setup stock and the compensation was almost spot on. The nylon x7 needed a lot of help. The tusq saddle had obviously been hand shaped but the nut was quite far off. The intonation was pretty far off particularly on the g which started off about 20 cents sharp.

Sounds like you were able to compare a schatten to the stock lr baggs?