Martin binding update

[BluesKing777]

Have we seen a mention of the problem in magazines etc?

I haven’t but usual suspect vested interests must be wondering what PR can fix this.....

Binding came off 3 of the Martins I bought around 2014-2015....D18, 000-18, CEO7....... I am an overseas customer so NO warranty, that is, I had to pay for the repairs myself!

The finish needs doing as well, preferably by an expert like mine....well, I thought...the 000-17 will be cheaper to fix as there is no binding on the back....BOING, wrong. ....... The repairer has no way to match the black smoke finish for the spot work near the binding so refinished the whole guitar!

So with a very bad taste in my mouth, I sold the D18 and the 000-17.......but here is the kick in the teeth - I had to declare the binding problem, binding repairs and took a bath on the selling price!

Yeah, I will pile it on!

So it looks like the CEO7 will be staying or take another bath on that too.

PFFT!

Playing my beautiful wood bound Lowdens next.


BluesKing777.

[Mobilemike]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Eight months (!!!) to fix the binding? I've had entire custom instruments built in less time (with maple binding no less). What was the shop doing with it all that time?

I know. I do trust that this luthier has done an excellent job, but it’s definitely a lot longer than I was prepared for. The binding was repaired back in early December, and the guitar was in his finishing booth to repair the finish. I guess it needed a few months to dry and cure before it could be sanded and buffed.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Gromitspapa

I didn't realize a wood binding would solve the problem. I purchased a couple of Martins new to have the warranty. One of them was a custom shop from Wildwood, but it didn't have a wood binding. It seems like if someone is ordering a custom shop, that should be added to the order. How much does Martin charge for it as a separate option?

Any idea what percentage of Martins wind up with a binding problem?

Using the custom guitar configurator on Martin’s website, it looks as if the upcharge is $308 regardless of the wood option chosen (flamed maple, flamed koa, etc.). The actual price may be slightly lower because it’s typical for dealers to discount the custom build price from Martin. This is what the flamed koa looked like on my 0-28S (even the fretboard and headstock were bound, which I assume costs extra, but the configurator doesn’t show a difference in price between an HD-28 and a D-35, which has a bound fretboard):





My wild guess is that 10% to 20% of the guitars with plastic binding made in Nazareth between 2012 and 2018 had the problem. That’s an enormous number of guitars. I think the percentage is a lot lower post-2018 (Martin appears to have made some change in glue formulation around that time), but not zero (my 000-18 was built in 2021). I think the problem is magnified on the AGF because the same dozen or so members pile onto every thread.

I got my guitar back from Paul Neri after a few weeks. I don’t think the actual repair took him that long—he had other work in the queue.

[jaymarsch]

Of all of the guitars that I’ve owned over the years, only 4 have had white plastic binding. And of those, only one had issues with binding coming loose - a 1991 Martin M-38. The repair was covered under warranty and I sold the guitar months later.
All of my current guitars have wood binding. Wood binding can get nicked up a bit more easily but I prefer it to plastic. It’s so unfortunate that it seems that there has been no serious attempt to solve the issue for good.
Best,
Jayne

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Using the custom guitar configurator on Martin’s website, it looks as if the upcharge is $308 regardless of the wood option chosen (flamed maple, flamed koa, etc.). The actual price may be slightly lower because it’s typical for dealers to discount the custom build price from Martin. This is what the flamed koa looked like on my 0-28S (even the fretboard and headstock were bound, which I assume costs extra, but the configurator doesn’t show a difference in price between an HD-28 and a D-35, which has a bound fretboard):





My wild guess is that 10% to 20% of the guitars with plastic binding made in Nazareth between 2012 and 2018 had the problem. That’s an enormous number of guitars. I think the percentage is a lot lower post-2018 (Martin appears to have made some change in glue formulation around that time), but not zero (my 000-18 was built in 2021). I think the problem is magnified on the AGF because the same dozen or so members pile onto every thread.

I got my guitar back from Paul Neri after a few weeks. I don’t think the actual repair took him that long—he had other work in the queue.

Interesting. My lowly Cordoba Cadete was $300 new and came fully bound in rosewood.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

Of all of the guitars that I’ve owned over the years, only 4 have had white plastic binding. And of those, only one had issues with binding coming loose - a 1991 Martin M-38. The repair was covered under warranty and I sold the guitar months later.
All of my current guitars have wood binding. Wood binding can get nicked up a bit more easily but I prefer it to plastic. It’s so unfortunate that it seems that there has been no serious attempt to solve the issue for good.
Best,
Jayne

The only guitar I've had that had the binding pull loose at the waist was my 1939 Epiphone Triumph. I thought I could cut it some slack after 70 years...

[Dogma]

Does this happen with both ivoroid and (not)tortoise binding? Are they made of the same plastics?

I don't think Martin makes their own binding material, do they? How is it that no other company has this problem (or is this true)? There are certainly many guitar-building companies - large and small - that use these two binding materials. Is it likely that there is one company whose entire output goes to Martin?

Does Martin make their own cases? If not, it seems unlikely that one particular VOC producing material would be used only in Martin cases.

To me, some reaction between the binding and glue seems like the most likely issue. Or, I don't know, something associated with buying large amounts of the binding and how it is packaged or stored? It is mysterious but seems solvable if the company wanted to.

[Slimt]

Remember the Old Gretsch Guitars. Eventually no binding.

[TJNies]

Originally Posted by raysachs

And yet...

I'm sure it wasn't your intent, but the history with these threads is every single one of them DOES turn into another pile on thread, where a great deal more heat than light comes to the fore...

-Ray

With the same responders each time making it sound like it's occurring more than it has.

Perhaps just a point of reference, but my Custom Authentic 000-28 shows zero sign of any impending binding issues. My 44 is doing ok too.

[BluesKing777]

Well, news to you is that it IS occurring a lot....probably all Martins made since 2012 with non wood binding.....and Martin still stays stum.

Anyway, I have sold my offending junkers at a loss, but hey.....the way it is heading is that soon they would be unsellable? What about a million broken Martins out there?

BluesKing777.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Well, news to you is that it IS occurring a lot....probably all Martins made since 2012 with non wood binding.....and Martin still stays stum.

Anyway, I have sold my offending junkers at a loss, but hey.....the way it is heading is that soon they would be unsellable? What about a million broken Martins out there?

BluesKing777.

As I mentioned in the adjacent thread, I own a dozen Martins made in Nazareth between 2012 and 2021 that have plastic binding. Only one has had the binding come loose. In multiple threads on the topic, other members (often owning multiple) chime in that their guitars built in this period haven’t experienced any problems.

According to a recent interview with Thomas Ripsam, Martin makes approximately 40,000 guitars a year in Nazareth. Assuming conservatively that 30,000 of them have plastic binding, that’s over 300,000 guitars, with approximately 180,000 made between 2012 and 2018, when Martin supposedly made some change in the glue used. If 100,000 guitars had the problem, the blowback would be way bigger than it is.

I’m not saying that it’s not a problem, or that Martin has handled the issue poorly, but it’s a gross exaggeration to say that every guitar Martin has made with plastic binding since 2012 has or will have the problem.

[colins]

Just as our tastes in music and guitars show wide variation so do our perceptions of guitar-related issues. So far in this thread we’ve had opinions ranging from this is occurring on up to 20% of Martins through to it’s the same old whiners who are upset because their expensive guitars were badly built.

Let’s try to be a bit more quantitative. I have set up a poll here where people can say whether or not the binding on their Martin has had issues.

[jimmy bookout]

I don't have a dog in the fight (no Martins) so I asked my luthier if this Martin binding issue is indeed an issue.
He told me his best recollection is that he sees 15-20 Martins a year with this problem (he has 3 in his shop as I type this)
To suggest that this is an "internet exaggeration" is silly. I don't think my luthier is fixing ALL the Martins with separating binding.

[Horsehockey]

Originally Posted by Osage

I work on guitars for a living so I see a fair amount of Martin binding repairs. I'm sure they've taken a hit here on the AGF but this place doesn't represent the guitar playing public at large. The vast majority of people who bring their Martins in for binding repair have never heard of the issue and have no idea that it's a widespread problem. I truly don't think they've taken a big hit, which is why they've never properly addressed the issue.


The thing I've wondered for a few years now is if Martin is actually paying for these warrantee repairs or if they have insurance for something like this?

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but it seems that the Martin company binding issue should now be well known within the company and the company has made the business decision not to address it in favor of its customers. 👎

[boneuphtoner]

Originally Posted by abn556

Larrivee’s maple binding on the OM-40R that I have looks way better than plastic.

This right here - not only does it look much classier, no issues with binding separation. And don’t tell me it is much more expensive to do it this way as my D-03 (like a D-18) costs a bit under what a new D-18 costs. One of the only places in the standard Martin catalog to get solid wood binding is the modern deluxe series.