K&K live performance

[steelvibe]

Okay, lot's of K&K love here and for good reason. I know what I'm asking might be a complicated question but I'm just hoping to gain some information from experienced users and what their successes and failures might be.

The K&K PW is great for relatively accurate reproduction of guitar tone and for non-invasive and relatively easy install. However, the K&K is best for solo performers or for duet settings and not so much for loud band settings where the signal needs to cut through the mix but therein lies perhaps this pickups greatest weakness. Feedback.

What are users doing who are playing in loud band situations with drummers, bassists, keyboardists, kazooists, etc.? Leaving it up to your sound people? Special tricks? Flux capacitors??

[Monsum]

I have the K&K mini installed in two guitars, in a Gibson Hummingbird and a Taylor GS mini. I play with a drummer, keyboardist and a group of singers (sometimes with a bassist). I have never experienced serious problems with feedback when playing the Gibson. On the other hand the Taylor feedbacks easily, so it looks like it depends a lot on a guitar.

There a few precaution steps I take though to avoid feedback problems.
Firstly I always use a soundhole cover, secondly I EQ a wedge monitor appropriately (roll off a lot of lows and low mids), it doesn't need to sound great for me to be able to play my part right, but I make sure the guitar sounds good through the main speakers. And thirdly to be on the safe side, I use the cheap dbx GoRack feedback suppressor, just in case if the feedback occurs suddenly, during the song.

[AeroUSA]

I took it out and installed a Matrix undersaddle since I couldn’t handle the feedback I was getting playing solo let alone with a band.

[Methos1979]

I use the very simple and inexpensive rubber feedback suppressor (sound hole cover). I have yet to play in a situation that was so loud that that didn't work but then again I also have yet to play in any loud band-type scenarios so take that into account.

[Vancebo]

I use a Preamp with a good notch filter. There are many that do. Baggs PADI and Venue, the Fishman Platinum, the Radial PZ Pre and Deluxe. The new Mesa Rosette Preamp DI is an amazingly well thought out EQ with a notch and a high pass filter. Those are just a few that I am familiar with.

Another interesting alternative is the Ultra Tonic by James May Engineering. He has a version of his on-board Preamp that can be added to someone’s already existing KandK. It has built in feedback suppression that you can fine tune to your guitar. It is quite interesting. Hope that helps.

[SalFromChatham]

I play a k&k through a Red Eye Fire Eye into a Bose L1, which takes in two guitars and two vocals. Quiet gigs no problem. Crowded pub gigs... no problem either, but the soundhole plug is needed.

[martingitdave]

Feedback is a dynamic and complicated phenomenon. Blocking the sound from the speakers, from getting back to the pickup through the induced vibrations, with a plug, will help.

Besides the plug, the next weapon of choice is the phase switch. By engaging a phase switch, you place the signal from the guitar, and the output from the amp, 180 degrees out of phase from each other. This will often effectively mitigate the feedback because the signals out of phase cancel each other. Sometimes the tone will sound better when the switch in engaged, and vice verse.

Most acoustic guitars will have a specific resonance, like the 110 Hz low A string for example, that will induce a feedback loop. Most of my Dreadnoughts seem to feedback primarily on the A string. I have a feedback cancel button on my preamp that usually notches out that 110 Hz frequency. It will be different for each guitar. Using a narrow notch filter for the offending frequency will usually work.

If you’re getting a lot of feedback in tight quarters, speaker and monitor placement can be adjusted.

Otherwise, install the Matrix and get an Aura pedal. ;-)

[krisls]

I would agree that the K&K's most likely 'fail' position is a tight stage in a band setting with loud levels.

Hi pass filter at mixer, feedback buster and EQ most of the bottom end out... a notch filter on standby if you run into a squeal. Speaker placement as mentioned and you will almost certainly be fine. A little care will get you there most of the time. don't spend until you need to.

Kris

[Racerbob]

This is the reason James May created the Ultra Tonic Pickup. The anti-feedback part can be added to an existing K&K. So far I've yet to have feedback since installing two of these systems.

[steelvibe]

Thanks for responding guys- as always, a wealth of information!

Well the guitar in question already has a K&K but I've only used it in quiet situations. I have also purchased a feedback buster and also own a Fishman Platinum Stage with 2 lo-cut filters and phase switch. I've not played in a band in a while but might in the near future.

In the past I've used in-ear monitors made by Shure with interchangeable plugs. My favorites are plugs that have a hole bored through the middle of it so that I can hear the band better but get my signal from the headphone preamp. I find that with this system I technically don't even need a wedge. As long as I stay away from other's loud wedges/amps, subs and speakers I should be golden.

[varmonter]

When I first got my martin with a KK installed
We played an outdoor event . I plugged it in
Turned up the volume and it squealed.
I mean it just howled..
I thought this thing isn't going to work.
I went through the soundhole cover thing
And it works . But I found through judicious
EQ application I can dial it in without the
Cork in. I think the KK like said above lends
Itself to that 110 Hz Area feedback. A notch
With a narrow v can generally dial it out
Without killing your tone. I use a felix preamp. But they're spendy.
If your playing acoustic. In an electric band and you can't keep your
Stage levels at a manageable level. You may
Want to think about a magnetic pup. Like
A baggs m80 or a sunrise. Or you may have to
Keep the rubber plug.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

What are users doing who are playing in loud band situations with drummers, bassists, keyboardists, kazooists, etc.? Leaving it up to your sound people? Special tricks? Flux capacitors??

Soundhole pickups. I use Baggs M1a when in these conditions. And watch where you place the monitors!

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Soundhole pickups. I use Baggs M1a when in these conditions. And watch where you place the monitors!

They sound pretty good too. Is this your favorite soundhole PU? I was also looking at the Dimarzio Black Angel

[J Patrick]

..when I was gigging in ensembles a K&K/M1A dual setup worked great for me...I used a stereo cord and sent the signal to separate channels on the board...(k&k through a preamp) ....some of the best live sound I've achieved to date...

[meb]

Hello SteelVibe. I use the Black Angel in my Goodalls. I wanted a non-invasive, good sounding solution. All I ever could get out of a K&K
was squeal, hum, or a dead sound. I know others have them sounding good.

I also owned and used the Baggs M80.
It was great for finger-style, but with a pick I was always fighting a dryness.
Plus, ,y picking style led to a lot of clicking. None-the-less if you must go active, it is a fine pickup. I keep an M1A (similar to M80) handy
just in case I ever need an active pu. They are easy to swap in/out;
just use the Baggs harness for both.

I prefer the Black Angel. As you know, it is passive. The output is
reasonable and usable without a preamp, but I use it mostly with the Venue, but some with the PADI. I get a very nice warm, but detailed sound with it. You will want a nice preamp to get the most out of it. Also, the
phase switch helps when dialing in the sound if your preamp/DI doesn't
have one. It should definitely be on your short list.

My 2 cents...hope it helps.