Recording classical/flamenco guitar

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Isotope RX can remediate a lot of problem audio, but you're MUCH better off creating clean tracks initially rather than patching up your work with bandaids. It's your choice, though.

Your goal should be creating clean tracks that you don't need to "fix". I guess there's worse ways to spend your money.

Just a +1 on this. RX is a very useful tool, well worth having, for those inevitable times when there's something to clean up. BUT, ideally, I'd not just plan on using it to remove ambient noise from every recording, unless there's simply no other way. It is going to do some damage to your recording, might be small, but it's not perfect.

And it should be possible to get your noise levels down. Definitely sounds like air conditioning or maybe a computer fan. If it's a computer, and all you do is solo guitar, then a silent recorder, like the Zoom Barry mentions, is a decent solution, or just move the computer further away. If it's air conditioning, just shut it off while recording, if you can. Putting on headphones may help find the source of the noise. In the long run you'll be happier not needing to fix the tracks every time. Band-aids are nice to have, but it's better not to cut yourself to start with!

But it depends on your goals and how you want to work, and how much control you have over your environment. If you're just sharing tracks with friends or posting here on AGF and RX makes the noise less annoying, maybe that's good enough. And if you live in a dorm or something where you have no ability to turn off the air, or a noisy area where traffic's a constant buzz, then RX may be the only solution, other than recording elsewhere.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Just a +1 on this. RX is a very useful tool, well worth having, for those inevitable times when there's something to clean up. BUT, ideally, I'd not just plan on using it to remove ambient noise from every recording, unless there's simply no other way. It is going to do some damage to your recording, might be small, but it's not perfect.

And it should be possible to get your noise levels down. Definitely sounds like air conditioning or maybe a computer fan. If it's a computer, and all you do is solo guitar, then a silent recorder, like the Zoom Barry mentions, is a decent solution, or just move the computer further away. If it's air conditioning, just shut it off while recording, if you can. Putting on headphones may help find the source of the noise. In the long run you'll be happier not needing to fix the tracks every time. Band-aids are nice to have, but it's better not to cut yourself to start with!

But it depends on your goals and how you want to work, and how much control you have over your environment. If you're just sharing tracks with friends or posting here on AGF and RX makes the noise less annoying, maybe that's good enough. And if you live in a dorm or something where you have no ability to turn off the air, or a noisy area where traffic's a constant buzz, then RX may be the only solution, other than recording elsewhere.

I have done all of the above - not sure you got a chance to read. There is no discernable noise i can pick with my ears, but somehow the mics are picking something

- this is a zoom H6 (no PC in the room)
- All ACs and everything that work in the bedroom are off (no fan, no PC, nothing...)

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

I have done all of the above - not sure you got a chance to read.

- this is a zoom H6 (no PC in the room)
- All ACs and everything that work in the bedroom are off (no fan, no PC, nothing...)

Hmm, there's clearly a pretty loud ambient noise coming from somewhere - sounds quite constant, so it seems likely to be a fan. I'd investigate more - I can't tell you how many times I was sure I'd removed all sources of noise, but there was always one last thing. But if you're completely stuck and there's no other option, RX is certainly better than leaving that much noise in. I'd just be careful - you can audition just the noise you're removing, so you can hear how much guitar is being removed along with the noise. You can perhaps find a point where maybe you still leave some noise, but don't kill too much guitar.

[Guitarist-1977]

Another track/trial with slightly less noise - it seems the baseline noise got a little bit better as I raised the mics on a stand (as opposed to lying on the chair).

Still a bit of red-light-fever but we will get there.

Only added +2 gain, compression and reverb in Audacity.

Thoughts and critiques are welcome

thanks for everyone on this thread who has taken the time to give me detailed feedback

https://soundcloud.com/guitarist77/mi2

[Guitarist-1977]

Any thoughts Anyone?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Any thoughts Anyone?

The rumble is still plainly audible in the track.

I'm curious if you are using isolation mounts on your mics. This could be something that's being mechanically coupled to the mic bodies.

As far as your red light fever goes, that's easy enough to cure by simply hitting record and letting it run. Don't bother stopping and restarting to try and capture a better take. Re-start as many times as you like until you get the "nailed it!" feeling. Media is cheap and you simply delete the part you don't like.

Compression on the way in is your enemy if you have any source of noise. Better to use a limiter if you're worried about digital overs.

[TBman]

Sounds better to me. I don't know how Rudy is listening, (I'm using headphones). I don't hear any rumbling this time around.

[Doug Young]

Sounds better, still some noise, but not as bad. If you trimmed off the beginning, most people wouldn't notice. Depends on your goals. For a commercial recording, I'd say this is still too noisy. For posting here, sharing with friends, maybe not so important.

What I hear now is lots of room sound - short reverb/echo, which is common in home recordings. Maybe more acceptable for a classical recording, which often have a more distant "recorded from the back of the concert hall" sound, but this isn't especially flattering. For home recording, it's probably better to get a drier sound and add reverb to create the expected classical guitar sound with a better quality room emulation.

The best solution is acoustic treatment for your space, but you might improve the sound (reducing the room sound) by placing the mics closer. I'd be careful with compression, as Rudy says, it can bring up the noise, and also can emphasize the room sound.

I hadn't realized your mics were just on a chair previously. Mic placement is one of the biggest keys to getting a decent recording, so you have to have them on a stand or stands and experiment to find the optimal mic position. You need some flexibilty and ability to fine-tune the position. Doubly important if you're fighting poor room acoustics.

[thefsb]

Originally Posted by TBman

Before you start thinking about upgrading your mics, upgrade your room first.

Correct!

If you know what you're doing you can EQ any decent mic to get the desired coloration (frequency response). But it's next to impossible to remove undesired room reflections.

LDCs are usually preferred because they are more directional. But upgrading from SDC won't make only a small difference to eliminating room reflections.

When I did some recording I bought a good-quality LDC and after some experiments I returned it. Listening to the test recordings it was clear I had to fix the room acoustically. And it wasn't just a matter of reducing reverberations, there's a nasty low frequency room mode at 110 Hz, the open A string, that would require large bass absorbers.

So I decided that I am not so committed to making high quality home recordings that I was going to make those changes to my study and music room. I don't especially want to be a recording artist. I like the music to be different every time, not frozen in a digital file. So I got rid of the good quality LDC. I use a combination of a mag pickup and dynamic mic now. The mag provides very smooth consistent bass and while the dynamic picks up the higher frequencies that make it sound like an acoustic guitar plus some room reverb (how much depends on how far away i put it). Good enough for most of my needs and I can rent a proper studio if I need something better.

But that's just me. If you want it to sound really good and to frequently make such recordings at home, you gotta make the room sound good because the mic is going to pick that up too. That was the problem with good quality mics, they so clearly reveal what the room sounds like.

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

The rumble is still plainly audible in the track.

I'm curious if you are using isolation mounts on your mics. This could be something that's being mechanically coupled to the mic bodies.

As far as your red light fever goes, that's easy enough to cure by simply hitting record and letting it run. Don't bother stopping and restarting to try and capture a better take. Re-start as many times as you like until you get the "nailed it!" feeling. Media is cheap and you simply delete the part you don't like.

Compression on the way in is your enemy if you have any source of noise. Better to use a limiter if you're worried about digital overs.

Rudy - thanks for your feedback - I am not using super nice speakers to monitors so maybe that is why I don't hear the rumble you describe. Not sure i understand what you mean by mic isolation mount, are you implying the mics are picking some type of static noise from the floor? It is a concrete floor in a high-rise building. Noted on the red-fever

Will have to read about limiter as I don't know what it does. My problem is if I lower the gain on the mics i capture less noise from the room but then i have to boost the gain in post (in addition to compression). Hope this helps, thanks again

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by TBman

Sounds better to me. I don't know how Rudy is listening, (I'm using headphones). I don't hear any rumbling this time around.

thank you TBman

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by thefsb

Correct!

If you know what you're doing you can EQ any decent mic to get the desired coloration (frequency response). But it's next to impossible to remove undesired room reflections.

LDCs are usually preferred because they are more directional. But upgrading from SDC won't make only a small difference to eliminating room reflections.

When I did some recording I bought a good-quality LDC and after some experiments I returned it. Listening to the test recordings it was clear I had to fix the room acoustically. And it wasn't just a matter of reducing reverberations, there's a nasty low frequency room mode at 110 Hz, the open A string, that would require large bass absorbers.

So I decided that I am not so committed to making high quality home recordings that I was going to make those changes to my study and music room. I don't especially want to be a recording artist. I like the music to be different every time, not frozen in a digital file. So I got rid of the good quality LDC. I use a combination of a mag pickup and dynamic mic now. The mag provides very smooth consistent bass and while the dynamic picks up the higher frequencies that make it sound like an acoustic guitar plus some room reverb (how much depends on how far away i put it). Good enough for most of my needs and I can rent a proper studio if I need something better.

But that's just me. If you want it to sound really good and to frequently make such recordings at home, you gotta make the room sound good because the mic is going to pick that up too. That was the problem with good quality mics, they so clearly reveal what the room sounds like.

Thank you for your feedback.
For starters, I don't really know know what I am doing - I am starting to dabble with recording. I have honestly thought about adding an LDC (to add some warmth) in addition to the SDC pair I have but will hold on until I get get decent noise level from the SDC. What would I need to do to better control room reflections? throw more rugs? Or put some sound absorbers on the wall when I record? All thoughts are welcome here.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

What would I need to do to better control room reflections? throw more rugs? Or put some sound absorbers on the wall when I record? All thoughts are welcome here.

That's a huge topic. Fortunately, one of our members has compiled a lot of useful information all in one place about this, as well as lots of other info about recording. Look at posts #9 and #18 in this sticky in the Recording forum:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=594800

Since you're just getting started recording, a bit of time spent reading thru this sticky should help you make a lot of progress quickly!

[Guitarist-1977]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

That's a huge topic. Fortunately, one of our members has compiled a lot of useful information all in one place about this, as well as lots of other info about recording. Look at posts #9 and #18 in this sticky in the Recording forum:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=594800

Since you're just getting started recording, a bit of time spent reading thru this sticky should help you make a lot of progress quickly!

Thank you - that is very helpful will sift through them.

One more question when I record with AB pair in Zoom H6 I couple the mics as XY pair in stereo in zoom. Is that the right way of doing it? or they should be separate? thanks

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Guitarist-1977

Thank you - that is very helpful will sift through them.

One more question when I record with AB pair in Zoom H6 I couple the mics as XY pair in stereo in zoom. Is that the right way of doing it? or they should be separate? thanks

I think you mean you link the 2 tracks to a stereo pair? Yes, that's fine, the two tracks are going to end up as a stereo pair somewhere along the line, and it's simplest to just record them that way. It really has to do with workflow, the DAW you ultimately edit in, and just how you like to work. Some people like to work with 2 individual mono tracks, others like to have 1 stereo track. Depending on your DAW, there can be benefits either way. Personally, I prefer to use a stereo track because it makes it easier to operate on the recording as a whole and to apply plugins equally.