ToneDexter 2 - initial thoughts and reviews

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by joshbennett

If you've got a green connected Network to your ToneDexter, and you open Chrome and it's STILL not connecting, let me know. There might be some extra-tight security set up on your Mac with a Firewall that prevents such connections.

Any chance that Apple's usbmuxd interferes here? IIUC Chrome/ium has WebUSB enabled by default so it should be possible to connect to USB devices directly, without emulating a TCP/IP stack?

[sfearing]

Originally Posted by joshbennett

Hi All

I'm on tour at the moment but I'll try and cover a few of the questions above, and when I get home if there are still problems I'll get them sorted out.

Firstly, Tadol, you're correct in that the ToneDexter II works as a standard preamp without any training. If you start changing gains and eq on an empty WaveMap slot, it will show as Blue and Italics, letting you know it's no longer at the default settings. You can rename, copy, save, revert to saved, download, upload, move etc, but it will show as blue instead of gold, letting you know there's no WaveMap attached. On the web interface it will also show as blue instead of red. WaveMap-specific parameters such as anti-feedback and spaciousness are disabled for these slots, but everything else works.

Regarding sfearing's questions, once you unzip the file you downloaded, your computer won't know how to open it (the unsupported format you were referring to), but it doesn't need to. Next to the zip file in your downloads folder there should now be a .bin file. That's the file you need to send to the ToneDexter, and to do that you need to connect to it, which leads me to your second post.

I have a Mac too, and I've connected successfully with both Chrome and Safari with version 1.1, but had niggling issues with V1.0 and Safari, so my first suggestion is to use Chrome if you can until you've upgraded. Have a look at your System Settings->Network for a connection that says "Go to http://192.168.7.1" or similar. It should have a green "connected" status if you have a ToneDexter connected with a good USB cable. Note that if you're not using the cable we supplied, a lot of Micro-USB cables only have the power pins connected as they're often supplied with toys/gadgets that just need to be charged, and they won't work.

If you've got a green connected Network to your ToneDexter, and you open Chrome and it's STILL not connecting, let me know. There might be some extra-tight security set up on your Mac with a Firewall that prevents such connections. As a last resort we can send you "in the tradesman's entrance" and restore your software with a factory reset, so one way or the other you'll get your upgrade!

Cheers
Josh

Thanks for this Josh - I suspect it is my USB cable is the issue now that I read this - I will experiment later today and get back to you asap.
Many thanks for the response on both issues.
=SF=

[sfearing]

Josh, it was indeed the cable, and of course you guys supplied a superior USB cable to connect my Tonedexter II to my computer. Once the proper cable was in use, everything else fell into place including the software update. Wow!! I've really got to hand it to you, this is a beautiful piece of gear with a huge amount of flexibility and well thought out interface. For those folks wondering why they should upgrade from the old Legacy Tonedexter to the new TD II, I have to tell you that it is a much more sophisticated pedal with a lot more possibilities and yes, in my opinion, the maps sound significantly better - couple that with the vastly improved EQ functions + the vastly improved tuner and user interface, and you have a much more useful unit.

I will be selling my old Legacy Unit promptly.

=SF=

[Spats Davenport]

Originally Posted by joshbennett

Hi All

WaveMap-specific parameters such as anti-feedback and spaciousness are disabled for these slots, but everything else works.

This is interesting - so the anti/feedback only works on the wavemap output, which. I suppose, is where it might be needed most.

I have a related question - Dry EQ only affects the dry signal. But, does the main EQ affect only the wavemap signal, or is it an EQ for the summed output?

And lastly, what does spaciousness do?

Thanks,

Spats.

[MarkLauden]

I'm interested to hear people's experiences (and tips) as they use TD II. There's so much to explore here, that sharing knowledge is really helpful. Fine-tuning tonemaps with EQ is of special interest to me.

Here are a couple of things that I've noticed regarding making tonemaps (with the usual qualification that your experience may be completely different):

After making my first tonemaps with a nice AKG 451B small diaphragm condeser mic, I tried a relatively cheap MXL 990 large diaphragm condenser, and was happier with the result. I've zeroed in on a spot about 12-14" in front of the heel of the neck, about level with the neck, and the results seem have more depth/richness than the AKG.

When I started out, I mostly used a flatpack for training the maps, even though about half my playing is fingerpicked. The resulting map seemed to work equally well for either playing style. But when I tried training by fingerpicking, the resulting maps were a lot more like the actual guitar sound - even when I used them while flat picking. Go figure. Caveat: I trimmed my nails shorter than usual, so I was getting mostly a softer flesh-picked sound when training.

One other note: I've used this technique (MXL, fingerpicking) with two different guitars, with slightly different results. My Martin 00 loves this configuration. My Eastman OM seems to prefer a flatpicked tonemap for flatpicking, but, like the Martin, sounds best fingerpicked with a fingerpicked tonemap.

I suspect all of this is very dependent on mic type and placement. Since the possibilities are nearly infinite, I suppose we'll never know what what's really "best." That said, it all sounds good.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

This is interesting - so the anti/feedback only works on the wavemap output, which. I suppose, is where it might be needed most.

This makes complete sense when you think about it - a wavemap is required to implement anti-feedback.

[James May]

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

This is interesting - so the anti/feedback only works on the wavemap output, which. I suppose, is where it might be needed most.

Yes, that's correct. The anti-feedback function only works if there is a trained WaveMap present, but there is still a notch available to deal with feedback in the case of an "empty" WaveMap slot.

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

I have a related question - Dry EQ only affects the dry signal. But, does the main EQ affect only the wavemap signal, or is it an EQ for the summed output?

There two separate EQ blocks, one for the WaveMap path and one for the dry path, and those two paths are combined with the blend control. In the case of operating in crossover mode, there is just the main EQ block which operates on the signal after the crossover paths are recombined.

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

And lastly, what does spaciousness do?
Thanks,
Spats.

Spaciousness is an expanded version of what we called Character on the first ToneDexter. It alters the time span of the impulse response, without changing the tonality (frequency response). This is not to be confused with shortening or lengthening the IR by stretching or shrinking it directly. That would alter the tonality and be a disaster. Nor is it to be confused with truncating it or fading it down.

Rather, it uses some pretty sophisticated math to manipulate the phase of the IR without affecting the frequency magnitude, and with the help of the laws of physics alters the time span. It's hard to describe in words, but listening with phones it will be very clear what's going on.

Why is this useful? Your instrument is a mini echo chamber and a note, especially one that resonates, will ring out a long time, for tens of milliseconds. An upright bass will do this for a very long time. When amplified through a PA with its own room acoustics, the sound can get a little mushy or buried. It's easy to combat this be turning the Spaciousness control down from the default 100% (just like what the mic heard) towards 0%. I knew this would be useful, but am still amazed how helpful this is and how it can save the day in certain situations.

[Larrison]

RE: Spaciousness control-

I think that is one of the things I didn’t know I needed until I had it. I used another IR loader with non-custom IRs and they sounded pretty great with fingerpicking or sparse strumming. But whenever I played them with our band, I had the same feeling you get when your reverb is stealing your attack too much. Plenty loud but no punch which is a recipe for crappy acoustic sound in a mix.

[Spats Davenport]

Thanks James!

[joshbennett]

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

This is interesting - so the anti/feedback only works on the wavemap output, which. I suppose, is where it might be needed most.

I have a related question - Dry EQ only affects the dry signal. But, does the main EQ affect only the wavemap signal, or is it an EQ for the summed output?

And lastly, what does spaciousness do?

Thanks,

Spats.

The Anti-Feedback and Spaciousness controls actually adjust the WaveMap itself, whereas the other eq controls are added on over the top. That’s why they’re off when there’s no WaveMap to adjust.

Anti-Feedback
The WaveMap will almost certainly have peaks in it that correspond to the natural resonances of your instrument. The anti-feedback control drops those peaks down, and if you go up past 100% will start to notch out the instrument’s resonance. This is important if you plan to blast the guitar signal back at it from a monitor speaker.

Spaciousness
This controls the time-spread of the WaveMap. Our algorithm models not just how much of each frequency there should be to match the mic, but also ‘when’ those frequencies arrive and how long they stick around. This phase information is what gives the instrument a great deal of its character, but also spreads the signal, and in a large or echoey environment can reduce clarity or cause feedback. By dialling Spaciousness back towards 0% you’re squishing the signal back towards zero phase and a more immediate signal. Going above 100% spreads it out even more, giving it a reverb-y feel. Spaciousness is definitely worth experimenting with to get the sound you want in a certain venue.

Finally to your question about EQ. James has made some nice block diagrams that make this clearer (up on the website soon if not already), but the short answer is the main EQ is after the WaveMap processing and before the blend with the Dry (or Aux 2) channel, which has its own eq and is unaffected by the other. The notch control affects both however.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Josh

[Spats Davenport]

Originally Posted by joshbennett

Anti-Feedback
The WaveMap will almost certainly have peaks in it that correspond to the natural resonances of your instrument. The anti-feedback control drops those peaks down, and if you go up past 100% will start to notch out the instrument’s resonance. This is important if you plan to blast the guitar signal back at it from a monitor speaker.

Thanks Josh, it certainly does help.

But when you say "go up past 100% will start to notch out the instrument's resonance," that sounds like what a anti-fb would do anyway. So what is happening when the anti-fb is on, but below 100%?

Thanks,

Spats.

[joshbennett]

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

what is happening when the anti-fb is on, but below 100%?

It’s probably easiest to see what’s going on visually on your ToneDexter (if you have V1.1 loaded on). Tap the anti-fb button and it will go to the Tone Shaping page and show you a curve of the impulse response. You’re likely to see some peaks around 200 and 400 (for a typical guitar). Those peaks are the strongest frequencies that the instrument’s body produces, and if you imagine singing them into the sound hole you’d get a loud response. The anti-feedback control will drop those peaks back to end up roughly in line with the average (0dB) response of the instrument at 100%, which will probably be more than enough to curb any feedback from your monitors, but if you need even more resistance to feedback, taking the value higher than 100% starts dropping the response even further at those troublesome frequencies. You can watch this happen on the ToneDexter screen.

Also, for those who like more information at the expense of more clutter, you can show the impulse response under the eq curve on the main page by choosing “show IR” under system config (from the tune page). I personally find this quite useful.

Cheers
Josh

[James May]

Originally Posted by Spats Davenport

Thanks Josh, it certainly does help.

But when you say "go up past 100% will start to notch out the instrument's resonance," that sounds like what a anti-fb would do anyway. So what is happening when the anti-fb is on, but below 100%?

Thanks,

Spats.

0 to 100% takes out resonances heard by the mic, above and beyond what the pickup is putting out. 100-200% takes out resonances inherent in the pickup signal itself. Typically not an issue for under saddle types, but for SBTs this can be very helpful. The original ToneDexter could only go to 100% BTW.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by James May

0 to 100% takes out resonances heard by the mic, above and beyond what the pickup is putting out. 100-200% takes out resonances inherent in the pickup signal itself. Typically not an issue for under saddle types, but for SBTs this can be very helpful. The original ToneDexter could only go to 100% BTW.

So, the upgrade doesn’t just take it to 11, or even 12, you took it all the way to 20!

[Spats Davenport]

Originally Posted by Larrison

For James or any other TD2 users- is there any way to extend the time it takes for a menu to time out and go back to the prior menu without user input? Or even disable that function? Sometimes I’m having to race the clock or keep a knob moving while thinking/playing/listening.

If this has been answered already, apologies, but I couldn’t find it.

I too found the 5s anxiety inducing. Then, I looked in settings, and you can change the duration. I have mine set to remain in the menu. I use the back arrows when I’m finished.

Spats.