Amplifying my D28

[Degenerates]

Hey all, just joined this forum so greetings from myself to you wonderful folk.

I have just acquired a rather lovely Martin D28, with no electronics. As I'm still paying the guitar off on finance until June 2022 I don't want to modifying it permanently (else I'd stick an LR Baggs Anthem in it).

What I do want to do however is to amplify it for live use such as online streaming (guitar lessons) and when the time comes, a venue.

What's my best bet for this? Soundhole pickup or a trusty microphone?

I've considered the LR Baggs M80, iRig Acoustic Stage for soundhole pickups, or an SM57/some kind of condenser for microphones.

Anyone tried the above soundhole pickups?

Only other issue with using a microphone is my mixer (Alto ZMX52) only has 1 xlr input which is for vocals so I'd have to use the line input for the D28.

If I used an SM57 I don't think I can just plug in an xlr - 1/4" cable as the preamp gain isn't enough for the mic to work at an acceptable level?

[Chipotle]

There are as many opinions on this as there are forum members, and solutions range in price from almost free to thousands of dollars.

First off, though, streaming and gigging have separate sets of requirements. You can mic a guitar just fine for Zoom, but a pickup is preferred for playing live for feedback resistance (and mobility).

For the Zoom side of things, the mixer doesn't appear to have USB capability. How do you plan to get the sound to the computer? Typically you'd want some sort of audio interface, either standalone or built into a mixer, to accomplish that. Once you have that sorted, a single mic could pick up both vocals and guitar. A condenser mic might work better but you could even try your 58. Just experiment with mic placement.

Pickups never sound as good as a mic'ed guitar, but many get a sound they can use with a soundhole pickup. A preamp and good EQ can help shape the pickup tone to something more pleasing. That's the way to go for live performance, and you can certainly use a pickup to stream if that's easier for you.

tl;dr: Use a mic for Zoom, get a pickup for live.

[Degenerates]

I use both a small compact mixer (the Alto ZMX52 mentioned above) for my 3 sounds - vocal mic for talking, guitar signal (if electric its direct in from Kemper) and backing track off my phone. This gets sent to my Focusrite audio interface into Windows 10 for audio input. I don't use Zoom for online guitar lessons. I use a platform called Rock Out Loud Live which runs in Google Chrome and is quite good for sound quality.

If I get something like an SM57 instrument mic I won't have another free xlr port to plug this into, unless I can get it to convert to a line input somehow (but it'd be a weak noisy signal I think). I could use a good condenser mic to pickup vocals and guitar together though.

Live I think I will get something like an LR Baggs M80. Or I could still get this to plug the pickup into 2nd channel of my mixer for live streams (i.e guitar lessons online)

[shufflebeat]

Is there a major problem using one mic for both vocals and guitar? The weak link in this case is the acoustic property of your room of course as you'd be placing the mic at greater distance but a little bit of a nice sounding room shouldn't be a deal breaker.

[Degenerates]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Is there a major problem using one mic for both vocals and guitar? The weak link in this case is the acoustic property of your room of course as you'd be placing the mic at greater distance but a little bit of a nice sounding room shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Yeah kinda. My neighbours have a rather noisy dog that likes to bark excessively loudly which can be heard through the not so well sound proofed walls. Whilst the room is decently treated the barking is very loud and will be picked up more by a condenser rather than a dynamic mic.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Degenerates

...and will be picked up more by a condenser rather than a dynamic mic.

Probably not wise to nail your colours too firmly to that mast, there is some apparent logic to it but you're better advised to look to polar patterns rather than capsule type, i.e., a decent supercardioid mic will focus better on your chosen source than a cardioid or omni. The condenser/dynamic aspect often correlates but not always.

I have a different version of the iRig for my phone. It works quite well and would go nicely into a ¼" jack but don't make any plans to use it for gigs unless it's one of those very special quiet ones with no audience.

Another option, if you've already decided to spend some money then a mixer with more inputs might be a better investment, both short and long term.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Another option, if you've already decided to spend some money then a mixer with more inputs might be a better investment, both short and long term.

You did say you had the Focusrite interface, but if you decided to try a new mixer, get one with USB interface capability and you can save a step. A Behringer with 2 mic preamps (Xenyx QX1002USB) is just $100, and you can get a nice little Soundcraft, A&H or Yamaha for around $200.

Another advantage to having a larger mixer is that even with a pickup, you can use a nice guitar preamp and DI out from that to another mixer channel, rather than going straight into a line input on the board.

[Degenerates]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Probably not wise to nail your colours too firmly to that mast, there is some apparent logic to it but you're better advised to look to polar patterns rather than capsule type, i.e., a decent supercardioid mic will focus better on your chosen source than a cardioid or omni. The condenser/dynamic aspect often correlates but not always.

I have a different version of the iRig for my phone. It works quite well and would go nicely into a ¼" jack but don't make any plans to use it for gigs unless it's one of those very special quiet ones with no audience.

Another option, if you've already decided to spend some money then a mixer with more inputs might be a better investment, both short and long term.

I do want to get a nice condenser mic in the future for recording, but that’s later on down the line. The iRig acoustic stage will probably do a job at home for not a lot of money but the D28 is a nice sounding acoustic so deserves a good pickup or a mic sound to show its true sound live.

And yes maybe a new mixer with more xlr inputs would be a good upgrade, I plumped for the smallest cheapest one just to get the online lessons moving as I had trouble with guitar and backing track sync. Something like the ZMX862 or even the Yamaha MG10 that has 4 xlr inputs.

[Degenerates]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

You did say you had the Focusrite interface, but if you decided to try a new mixer, get one with USB interface capability and you can save a step. A Behringer with 2 mic preamps (Xenyx QX1002USB) is just $100, and you can get a nice little Soundcraft, A&H or Yamaha for around $200.

Another advantage to having a larger mixer is that even with a pickup, you can use a nice guitar preamp and DI out from that to another mixer channel, rather than going straight into a line input on the board.

I’ve tried a usb mixer but the problem with using it for live streams is there’s no two way monitoring I.e only one of us can hear the mix so pretty redundant for online lessons. I need the Focusrite for two way monitoring so both of us can hear the same thing.

I also have a Kemper profiler so a mixer with more xlr inputs will allow me to use the main out with an xlr connection rather than 1/4 for a supposed stronger signal and less noisy maybe as it’s balanced.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Degenerates

I’ve tried a usb mixer but the problem with using it for live streams is there’s no two way monitoring I.e only one of us can hear the mix so pretty redundant for online lessons. I need the Focusrite for two way monitoring so both of us can hear the same thing.

Is this of interest?

Yamaha AG06

[Degenerates]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Is this of interest?

Yamaha AG06

One of my students bought this or something similar but we couldn't get it to work as a standalone USB mixer. So when he played his backing music with guitar I couldn't hear it, he pressed some buttons then I heard it but then he couldn't. We didn't get it to a stage where we could both hear the same mix so he just sent it back.

I can, of course use this with my Focusrite as I had been doing for 6 months with my Alto mixer, with just 1 more xlr port available to use with an SM57.

[martingitdave]

For the purposes you describe, I would recommend a USB microphone directly into your computer. I found this much more convenient for streaming than an interface. However, I am not streaming for a living. I just use it for fun and weekly performances with our club.

I've been totally satisfied with this:

https://apogeedigital.com/products/hypemic

A bit expensive, but worth it because of the built in compressor, in my opinion.

[Degenerates]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

For the purposes you describe, I would recommend a USB microphone directly into your computer. I found this much more convenient for streaming than an interface. However, I am not streaming for a living. I just use it for fun and weekly performances with our club.

I've been totally satisfied with this:

https://apogeedigital.com/products/hypemic

A bit expensive, but worth it because of the built in compressor, in my opinion.

I have the irig studio mic which I used when I first started online lessons last year when the first UK lockdown was imposed. I had to play backing music out of an external speaker however and it was hard to balance the levels a bit through one microphone. Whilst it worked it wasn't the best so I went down the interface route. Have been using that setup for well over 6 months now.

[shufflebeat]

Ok, slightly different tack:

I'm still not 100% clear on your setup and use but, based on what I think I understand:

* play your backing tracks from your computer using (for instance) VLC
* connect mic and guitar to the Focusrite
* coordinate them all with something like VoiceMeeter (choose between send to platform and/or monitoring hardware
* send mixed signal to the streaming platform.

We're wandering off the original topic to some extent but I think we're also getting closer to the actual problem.

[Degenerates]

The platform I use only detects analogue 1+2 on the Focusrite so when sharing audio from my laptop it causes it to be out of sync as its digital. I had this issue for a few months and couldn't figure out why til I got the hardware mixer.

I tried Voicemeeter and all those software things but the problem is digital vs analogue will never be in sync and its kinda tricky to balance levels. And with 3 windows open its a nightmare to navigate!