High action on new Martin HD28

[tbirdman]

First to introduce myself. I'm fairly new to the guitar scene, less than a year playing. However with covid and plenty of time on my hands, I'm practicing 2X a day for 2 hours each time, I've made quick progress and I'm asked to bring my guitar to events to play so I'm a decent strummer and fingerpicker. I'm taking currently 3 classes in beginners blues, beginning blues fingerpicking blues and music theory and have also one on one guitar lessons.

But my experience with buying guitars is quite limited. I do a lot of fingerpicking, but being just at the beginning of my guitar journey, so I don't know where I will end up. I'm 64.

I'm on my 2nd guitar a Taylor 214CE DLX which has been set up once, but was very playable when bought new with only minor setup changes made. I play with 11 gauge strings Thomastik Infeld Plectrums.

I had interest in acquiring something with a different sound like a dreadnaught like a HD28 so I went to look at a new one. I was surprised by how high the action was. I could play open chords with it ok, but it just seem much harder/stiffer if that is a good description from an inexperience guitar player. I'm assuming it was a combination of a high action and heavier strings. I assume Martins are shipped with 12s.

Question is regarding lowering the action to make the guitar more playable. If you lower the action, do you change the sound/tone of the guitar. If so, then how do you choose a guitar with high action, if the process of changing the action will change it's sound?

The size of the HD28 didn't both me at all which surprised me as I had read that people didn't like them because of their size. The neck size didn't bother me. I do have short stubby fingers.

Thanks for your guidance.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

First to introduce myself. I'm fairly new to the guitar scene, less than a year playing. However with covid and plenty of time on my hands, I'm practicing 2X a day for 2 hours each time, I've made quick progress and I'm asked to bring my guitar to events to play so I'm a decent strummer and fingerpicker. I'm taking currently 3 classes in beginners blues, beginning blues fingerpicking blues and music theory and have also one on one guitar lessons.

But my experience with buying guitars is quite limited. I do a lot of fingerpicking, but being just at the beginning of my guitar journey, so I don't know where I will end up. I'm 64.

I'm on my 2nd guitar a Taylor 214CE DLX which has been set up once, but was very playable when bought new with only minor setup changes made. I play with 11 gauge strings Thomastik Infeld Plectrums.

I had interest in acquiring something with a different sound like a dreadnaught like a HD28 so I went to look at a new one. I was surprised by how high the action was. I could play open chords with it ok, but it just seem much harder/stiffer if that is a good description from an inexperience guitar player. I'm assuming it was a combination of a high action and heavier strings. I assume Martins are shipped with 12s.

Question is regarding lowering the action to make the guitar more playable. If you lower the action, do you change the sound/tone of the guitar. If so, then how do you choose a guitar with high action, if the process of changing the action will change it's sound?

The size of the HD28 didn't both me at all which surprised me as I had read that people didn't like them because of their size. The neck size didn't bother me. I do have short stubby fingers.

Thanks for your guidance.

Wow! You sound like a prodigy. I also didn’t start playing until I was in my mid-sixties (63). I play for at least an hour or two everyday and will turn 70 this summer. But I assure you nobody’s asking me to play at events. I’m just glad the dog doesn’t howl anymore when I play. I count that as progress.

Regarding the Martin dread, they typically ship with what alotta folks (including me) consider high action and medium strings (.13s). With a good set of .12s and a full setup by a competent tech it’ll play as easy as your Taylor. You might lose a little volume but (to me at least) the easy playability is more than worth it.

[SkipII]

I had an HD-28 and I found the action a little high. Others with more knowledge might have more to say on this, but my sense was that Martin knew that the big dreads are often played loud and proud, so they come with a slightly higher action.

No problem though. You want to have the action set-up, and that includes the next relief first and then the saddle and nut.

To your question, there is a consideration or debate about how much sound (energy) you lose in reducing the break angle of the strings over the saddle. I suspect for the modest amount of adjustment you are talking about, I doubt you would notice it that much. I did mine and did not feel any loss of tone or volume.

Again, set-up starts with the neck.

[tbirdman]

I couldn't find out the gauge of the strings, but they looked huge like telophone wires compared to the 11s I'm using.

I found Justin Guitar a great website to learn from. It was a great step by step with planned practice routines which I liked.

[rokdog49]

Get it set up. Just about anyone and everyone on this forum will tell you that Martin’s are notorious for high action from the factory.
The loss in volume, if any, will be negligible unless you have rabbit ears.
If it has 13-56 gauge strings on it, you might drop done to 12-54’s.
Personally, I have no love for heavier strings. YMMV.
BTW, “Justin Guitar” is excellent.

[lastingimage]

First off Taylor guitars tend to come from the factory with lower action then do Martin's. Martin has always shipped their guitars with the action on the higher side figuring that lowering the action is a simple task but raising it would involve a saddle replacement. There are some such as Bluegrass players who favor higher action while fingerstyle players tend to prefer lower action.
To answer your question..... lowering the action will not alter the tone of a guitar. Tone is determined by the construction and choice of tone woods. Lowering the action can have the effect of lowering the volume. Lowering the action to a comfortable playing height probably will not lead to a perceivable loss in volume. When you go for very low action you might perceive a loss in volume but the trade off is extrema playability. I play fingerstyle on Martin 000 guitars and I have my action set at around 4/64 at the 12th fret. Someone strumming a dreadnaught will obviously not be happy with this type of set up. In that case I would shoot for between 5/64 and 6/64 action at the 12th fret. The Martin Dreadnaughts ship with medium strings and that is why they seem thicker compared to the lights that you are used to. Nothing wrong with changing the mediums out for lights. Just do so before you set the action. You may need a truss rod adjustment to compensate for the reduced tension. After that the nut slot depth can be adjusted for comfort, and lastly the saddle height can be adjusted to the desired height.
Hope this helps.

[John Arnold]

It depends on what is done to lower the action. Lowering the saddle will tend to reduce volume and shift the tone toward the bass. Tightening the truss rod (reducing relief) wont change the sound much, if at all.

[charles Tauber]

There have been reports of new Martin guitars having neck angle problems and in need of neck resets. The symptoms of an incorrect neck angle is that the action is higher than desired and there is insufficient saddle height projecting from the bridge to lower the saddle sufficiently.

The question is then how much too high are the strings? Also, how much saddle is projecting from the top of the bridge?

A common string height for the 6th string is about 3/32" and about 2/32 or so for the first string, measured at the 12th fret from top of the fret to bottom of the strings. A typical saddle projection is about 1/8".

The saddle needs to raised or lowered by twice the amount of change desired at the 12th fret.

If one measures the current string height at the 12th fret, determines how much it needs to be lowered, double that and that is how much needs to be removed from the saddle. The minimum saddle projection to ensure a sufficient break angle of the strings over the saddle is about 1/16". For a new guitar more is better, else there is no room for future adjustment as the instrument ages and needs further adjustment. These assume that the neck is sufficiently straight.

Lowering the saddle by a relatively small amount isn't likely to change the volume or tone noticeably. Large changes can.

So, the answer to your question depends upon just how much too high the strings are currently and how much saddle projection there is. Both of those can be measured with a ruler to eliminate the guess-work.

[Br1ck]

Taylor learned long ago they could sell more guitars with low action, and thinner necks. They bank on people not wanting higher action on them, which would need a new saddle. Martin by contrast send their guitars out with a taller saddle that can easily be lowered. And yes, their prominence among bluegrassers does factor into the decision.

Same with shipping .013s on dreads. It amazes me that when my peers are going to lighter strings due to age related issues, I'm going heavier on both guitar and mandolin. It is just the tone is better. Paying a physical price for sure.

[musicman1951]

I'm lucky enough to live 30 minutes from a luthier who also does repairs. Every new guitar goes in for a setup. He asks what I'm looking for and then watches me play for a while.

Best money I ever spend.

I wouldn't be surprised to find your guitar was shipped with 13's, but you can ask them. I like to have a new set of strings (of the gauge I like) go with the guitar for the setup.

[rllink]

I've talked to a few blue grass players who prefer a high action. Considering that a lot of blue grass players like Martins, like every blue grasser I know plays a Martin dreadnaught. It might be that they are catering to that group. Like some have said, it isn't as difficult to have the action lowered as it is to have it raised.

[mpaul73]

Not really an answer to the OP but I got a HD-28 from Sweetwater recently. I expected the action to be high but it wasn't. It was low.

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by mpaul73

Not really an answer to the OP but I got a HD-28 from Sweetwater recently. I expected the action to be high but it wasn't. It was low.

Maybe it was lowered for someone, and they returned it to Sweetwater per their exchange policy.

[Silly Moustache]

I have had Martins on and off since the '70s.

It has long been my understanding that they are supplied with a high but playable action, so that it can easily be adjusted by filing down (the underside of) the saddle, to taste.

Other brands set the action to more average heights, for instance Collings set theirs to 3/32" (.09375") bass and (they say ) 2/32" (which most educated people would call 1/16". (.0625") - which is a tad low for me, but most actions rise a little on new guitars.

Edited to correct the decimal figure ! Thanks Taylor Ham.

[smic28]

On your question about action and tone - yes, I think action can affect tone. But you have a lot of wiggle room before that happens as action is lowered. As others have mentioned, Martin's often have higher action than a Taylor (I assume) due to anticipated playing style of the buyer. I don't know if that's still true - the action on my newish Martin OM MD was great out of the box. Regardless, you should be able to set action on a Martin appropriate to your style and not sacrifice tone as long as you don't go too low.