singing and playing

[Charlie Bernstein]

Welcome, Ahinoki!

Here's another real easy trick for easing into singing:

After you're comfortable strumming the chords in time, try humming along with it. Don't sing, just hum. The tune doesn't have to sound like the song. It just has to fit.

Once you're comfortable doing that, drop in just a few words at a time: "We all live in a dah dadah dadah . . . ."

Why do you think this is the only time you're going to post here?

[JMW01]

I also felt uncoordinated when I was first learning to sing and play at the same time. What helped me the most was printing the lyrics and then putting a mark on the paper where the downbeats occurs. It gave me a visual reference that helped me to synchronize singing the melody and playing the rhythm.

I only did this for a few songs and then never looked back. The more you sing and play the easier it gets. Keep at it!

[Jamolay]

I find the fact that as soon as I sing I lose all concept of what my strumming hand is doing hilarious.

I think we hide in our caves and slowly strum and sing and keep adding little bits more until it comes together enough to stop hiding so much. Like everything else, focused, slow and careful practice.

Remember, it is fun, not necessarily an agenda.

[Cecil6243]

Before I stopped playing cold turkey over 30 years ago I got to the point singing and playing was easy. So I take up the guitar again about 3 years ago, and I'm almost at square one! Not anymore but I it took some work.

I could still kick myself for stopping for 30 years!

[Robin, Wales]

I have just started learning this old Dafydd Iwan song today. I'm hoping to perform it at a concert in 4 weeks time.

I thought that it was a good example for this threat. It's 3 chords (G, Am and D) in a 6/8 fairly quick strumming pattern. But the vocals are slow with their phrasing cutting across the underlying guitar strumming pattern.

It is actually not too difficult - as long as you get the complete separation of strum and voice. If you can clap the rhythm whilst singing the tune then basically you are there.

The hard part for me is going to be learning the Welsh lyrics!!! That's where I'll put my time and effort. Probably 10 hours of lyric learning to every 1 hour with my guitar in my hands learning to play it.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by rllink

Most people I've met who have trouble singing and playing are trying to accompany their guitar when they sing instead of the other way around. The guitar is the accompaniment, not the singing.

Thanks .... I'm going to pass this along as I find it makes sense and will help those that struggle with their timing.

I do not agree that the instrument sets the timing. The singer does and once it's set it does not very. Except when it's used as a tool.

I agree that one strum per bar or even when the chord changes would be a way to work at timing.

I feel music is about expression and not regimentation.

[Mandobart]

My thoughts on singing and playing simultaneously:

This is a high hurdle for some, not for others.

One thing I’ve always done was play a recording of a song I’m learning and sing along. A LOT. Lots of repetition.

I do it mainly to learn the lyrics, but it also helps internalize the song. I get to where I can hear the whole song - lyrics, melody, harmony, accompaniment in my head - my “mind’s ear.” Now all I have to do is play and sing along with the song in my head.

This is known as “audiation” and IMO is essential for a seamless blend of singing and accompanying yourself.

Also very crucial for me playing a solid rhythm on bass while singing the melody or harmony. It’s a lot harder on bass than on guitar, fiddle or mandolin.

[KevWind]

Humm lots of great suggestions.

I tend to think the playing accompanies the singing
But timing wise I think it's a combination of both singing and playing together that more or less, sets the timing .

That said I do not know what a "lifetime beginner" is ? But usually (sans some learning disability) the issue is not the number years of playing per.se. , but hours played in those years. As some have mentioned and IMO you must commit most of at least the first position chord changes to muscle memory so that you can just automatically play those changes without thinking about finger placement for the chords --And then you can think about what the lyrics are without the chording hand "glitching"


Now certainly we are all different and learn differently But seems to me at some point you have to be able to make the chord changes without thinking about them to be able to have smooth cohesion of voice and guitar

[Sponserv]

The very first time I tried to sing and play I was dumbstruck by how difficult it truly is. It gave me such an appreciation for real musicians. LOL

I have been playing about ten years and the only song I can sing and play is Happy Birthday. So there definitely is something to that "know the lyrics very well" thing.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Jamolay

I find the fact that as soon as I sing I lose all concept of what my strumming hand is doing hilarious.

Funny, but also frustrating.

There are some rhythms that cause me to sing to that rhythm (even when I'm not supposed to). And sometimes only in certain parts of the song (I can separate the vocals from the rhythm better in other places in the song).

No idea why that is. If I practice the guitar part alone for a while (keeping the pattern that I want to use), then add my voice, I can't help it . . . my voice suddenly starts trying to follow that rhythm. And I know the song VERY VERY well (it's my "signature song"). Drives me nuts.

[Robin, Wales]

I find that if I'm Travis picking it is easier for me to get that voice/guitar separation. There's something about that alt thumb that just keeps on going no matter what my voice is doing. I can even chat with the audience and still keep a Travis pattern going.

If you are struggling, it could be worth Travis picking a straightforward pattern like for The Speed of the Sound of Loneliness. John Prine was the master of playing something simple and rhythmical then singing across his playing.

It's his singing phrasing that makes the above recording so engaging. It's can be very easy to make Speed... a complete durge of a song if you don't move the phrasing away from the guitar.

It is one of those things that is "simple" but not "easy". It does take a lot of time and work to get the separation. Trying out some Travis picking may help folks to get that feeling of the guitar doing one thing and the vocals something else.