Coffee house repertoire and $$?

[bitsmith]

I learned to play guitar longer ago than I care to admit, and have recently returned to more serious practice after a long hiatus. I'm working on expanding my repertoire (and playing ability ) to a point that would enable me to play at local coffee houses and restaurants a couple of times a month (mostly solo fingerstyle, with a little singing thrown in here and there).

For those of you who play at small local spots on a semi-regular basis, I'd like to ask a couple of questions:

1) How large a repertoire would I need to play, say, a couple of two-hour gigs per month? I'm concerned about the possibility that as a result of my limited "touring area" some folks might wander into places where I'm playing several times in one year (and I'd like them to be pleasantly surprised if that happens); and that I'd be playing repeatedly at the same relatively small set of local spots (maybe 5 to 10?) and would like to avoid driving the management and waitstaff crazy.
2) What sort of pay range could I expect for playing 2-hour gigs in local spots?

Thanks,
Bryan

[UncleShish]

Bryan,

I like to figure 12-14 songs per hour depending on how gifted you are with the gab.

As for pay, most coffee shops and bookstores that I play are almost always play for tips and merchandise sales if applicable.
At least where I live, if you want to play for serious pay, you need to have 3-4 hours of material and be willing to play the bars and eateries.
I play mostly originals and choose to play where I can find my own audience. I definitely don't concern myself with pay. I guess that's what I have a "real job" for.

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by UncleShish

Bryan,

I like to figure 12-14 songs per hour depending on how gifted you are with the gab

I agree you'll probably need more songs when you are first starting due to 1. playing songs solo always takes less time per song. 2. Adrenaline, singing the songs a little faster and taking less break between each song.

[LilMama]

I used to play at a coffee house (I sung & had my own guitar player and we split the $) and we were paid $80 for 2 hours, plus tips. We had a lot of banter with the crowd~ we played about 18-20 songs. I think when I'm finally ready to start doing gigs on my own that I will be more than happy to play for tips while I'm starting out.

[deltoid]

I recently got a gig at a local coffee house, they offered me $75. That's ok with me, since I usually play open mics for free. Although, there's a big difference between playing 5 songs and 25 songs.

[Akubra]

I played gigs in coffee houses and bars in the '70's for $50 and $75. In a way it's incredible that pay is so low these days, but it's almost as if you have to pay the venue for your 'showcase', some places actually approach it like that. Another reason to play private parties and concerts instead!

[Rick Shepherd]

I agree, private parties are a great way to perform. I always feel kindof sleezy if I have to convince places to allow me to get a gig. And open mic setups, make me want to puke!

[cafeguy]

Ya got to be playing for the love because music is a tough way to make a living. I prefer coffee houses to bars, I've never had anyone toss a coffee cup yet and if they start throwing cookies I'm a happy boy.

[Chicago Sandy]

Back in the early 80s I used to play for at least $40-50 plus 20% of the bar tab, and sometimes got a guarantee against the door of $100-200. (I didn't have a recording, so there were no merch sales). These days, the Midwestern clubs that pay like that have their artists on a 2-3-year rotation and are extremely picky about who they do book (either you have to be an illustrious national or regional touring folkie or have a large and adoring cohort of friends, family or coworkers--better yet, subordinates). Most clubs here are strictly tips-and-CD-sales, and even some of them require you to draw well (they reason that a poor draw loses them food and drink revenue). One reason pay is so low is that there are fewer venues, more artists, and more free alternative entertainment to compete for the audience's time. Another is that the venues' overhead is higher due to higher municipal permit fees and ASCAP/BMI shakedown licenses (20 years ago, the P.R.O.s concentrated on radio and left the coffeehouses alone), as well as competition from mega-chain coffeeshops without entertainment.

We usually do two sets, 10-12 songs (allowing for banter and the fact that some of Susan's songs are quite long) per set. Between us we have at least enough original material to do a four-set gig (more if we did covers, which I do only solo or with Steve).

[WStepanek]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

Another is that the venues' overhead is higher due to higher municipal permit fees and ASCAP/BMI shakedown licenses (20 years ago, the P.R.O.s concentrated on radio and left the coffeehouses alone), as well as competition from mega-chain coffeeshops without entertainment.

We usually do two sets, 10-12 songs (allowing for banter and the fact that some of Susan's songs are quite long) per set. Between us we have at least enough original material to do a four-set gig (more if we did covers, which I do only solo or with Steve).

How does that whole ASCAP/BMI thing work? Does the performer need to pay to do covers, or is that covered by the venue's ASCAP/BMI license? DO all of your songs need to be on the ASCAP/BMI list?

[guitaniac]

Walter,

The performer doesn't contribute to the small performance royalties. That comes out of the venue's ASCAP and BMI licenses. The money is dispensed according to airplay, since it wouldn't be practical to monitor all live shows and keep track of who is playing what. This creates the unfortunate situation where an unlicensed venue can actually be sued for having an ASCAP-affiliated writer, or BMI-affiliated writer, come in and perform all his/her own material. The writer will likely not see a penny of royalties for this performance, yet the venue can be sued for not having the applicable license.

A great many venues have simply discontinued live music because of the exorbitant cost of small performance licenses. In my opinion, Sandy's use of the term "shakedown" is quite accurate and appropriate.

Gary

[lfyost]

The main issue you face is keeping the show interesting to the average listener. To the non-guitar freaks, which is 95% of your audience, most fingerstyle tunes after the third one start to all sound the same. You can vary the tempo, change the dynamics, strum some, fingerpick some, throw in a 12 string, etc. to help in this regard. If you can enlist a vocalist to take some solos or add harmony parts to your leads you will rewarded more than double.
Also, watch the energy. You don't have to go all high octane, but the slow and mid-tempo songs/tunes will lose your audience faster then anything. You become the coffee shop equivalent to elevator music.
As to the pay issue, I'd play the first two times at the same venue for tips. Two shots gives you an idea what kind of crowd you draw so you can assess what the business is receiving from their patrons (that you are providing and can thus legitimately ask for a portion).
How many tunes depends a lot on what you play. Time yourself. Put on your show to family and friends at your own house party. Then add two to three extra songs to have in your hip pocket to draw upon when you realize you still have 10 minutes before the break because you have played everything at the "I'm nervous because I'm kinda new at this" speed.
Be patient with yourself. The skills will evolve well if you keep at it.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Walter,

The performer doesn't contribute to the small performance royalties. That comes out of the venue's ASCAP and BMI licenses. The money is dispensed according to airplay, since it wouldn't be practical to monitor all live shows and keep track of who is playing what. This creates the unfortunate situation where an unlicensed venue can actually be sued for having an ASCAP-affiliated writer, or BMI-affiliated writer, come in and perform all his/her own material. The writer will likely not see a penny of royalties for this performance, yet the venue can be sued for not having the applicable license.

A great many venues have simply discontinued live music because of the exorbitant cost of small performance licenses. In my opinion, Sandy's use of the term "shakedown" is quite accurate and appropriate.

Gary

ASCAP has issued an opinion that a member cannot even give a venue operator a waiver because the monies collected from the licensing fees are based on airplay--and thus by waiving royalty payments for letting me play my own registered songs (or letting others perform them) I am stealing money from artists who get airplay royalties. In other words, by waiving my own royalties I am also attempting to waive Diane Warren's or Sheryl Crow's royalties, which I have no legal power to do.

The only reason I am still an ASCAP member is the off chance that my songs might accidentally get airplay on a surveyed station during the quarterly survey period (after all, sometimes the stations carrying "The Midnight Special" and Dr. Demento do get surveyed). And monkeys might fly out my butt......

I deliberately stopped applying for my ASCAPlus Award because the qualifying performance data members have to submit each year was being used to seek out small venue and even house concert operators and shake them down. It wasn't worth the $200 a year stipend for me to injure the people who went out on a limb to hire me.

Good points on repertoire. I have noticed people first getting really into flashy pickers and then beginning to zone out after the second or third instrumental in a row--unless the player can charm them between the songs with banter. Though I have never seen anyone but adoring friends and family be entertained by a truly awful or amateurish player, I have noticed that great songs and delivery and true audience interaction seem go a long way to making up for less than stellar instrumental skills in some artists I've observed. That's no excuse for slacking off in practicing, of course, but it does point up the fact that if you are not an entertainer, you need to be satisfied with being acoustic elevator music (which, while soul-sucking, often ironically pays much better and more steadily than putting on an actual show). But I do take exception to the statement that quiet, slow or midtempo songs are an audience-attention kiss of death. Wisely placed and introduced, they are like the palate-cleansing scoop of sorbet many restaurants serve before the entree; and in a noisy room where every other act is unrelentingly bashing away and belting, often the best way to attract attention is to whisper. Energy does not always mean volume and speed--an audience can pick up on the right kind of heartfelt quiet intensity.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

I deliberately stopped applying for my ASCAPlus Award because the qualifying performance data members have to submit each year was being used to seek out small venue and even house concert operators and shake them down. It wasn't worth the $200 a year stipend for me to injure the people who went out on a limb to hire me.

Thanks for confirming a suspicion/fear I've had about this award. I have a writer friend who applies for it every year. I've warned her that the info is probably being used to track down unlicensed venues.

Gary

[Earthworm]

I typically charge $100 to $150 per night. I make anywhere from $10 to $80 in tips. I don't sell CDs.

I play from a songlist of 100 tunes. 95% covers.

I try to learn and perform tunes that my audience wants to hear (e.g. Simon and Garfunkle, Johnny Cash, etc.).

I have been performing solo and/or in duos since 1982. This is a hobby business for me. I make enough money to keep myself in toys, but am sure glad I'm not trying to support my family this way.

It is a lot of fun and I seem to be enjoying performing a lot more now that I am older and have lost some of my hangups.