Update: Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom In A Larrivee C-03 TE Tommy Emmanuel ...

[SpruceTop]

... with Amulets installed using Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy.

First of all, let me say this system is HOT! Using the 15-foot Canare XLR Instrument cable I purchased from Trance along with the M Phantom system, I plugged straight into my LR Baggs Synapse Personal PA with its 48-volt phantom power engaged on Channel 1 and with all EQ flat, it has me hitting the -20 dB PAD button on the channel and that's with the channel gain knob at about only 1/3 of its rotation toward max. This is the hottest system I've ever plugged in! If desired, the cover on the onboard Phantom M preamp can be removed and the overall Gain of the preamp can be adjusted + or - 14 dB. The relative volume balance of the two independent preamp channels can also be adjusted if desired. Also, inside, is a Phase switch that can have the two Amulets in-phase or out of phase.

Given that the Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy gives you several minutes (6 or so) before setting, the mounting of the two Amulets is easy as I could slide them along a pencil line drawn on the bridge plate under the saddle line with the aid of a template I made of foam-board. I got the Amulets where I wanted them located by looking through the bridge-pin holes with two LED lights and a mirror inside. I located the Amulets similarly to Trance Audio's recommended positioning and let the epoxy set. It takes about 24-hours for the epoxy to finish hardening but you're good to play a guitar after one-half hour to an hour after installation of the transducers, be they Trance Amulets or the Dazzos in my other two Larrivees.

Although I ordered the Trance M Phantom system with the M-VT option, it came with the straight-ahead Phantom M only jumper in place in the onboard preamp so I thought, why not try it straight-up and leave installing the Volume/Tone soundhole module and its wire harness for later. Frankly, after hearing the system, I'll likely not install the M-VT option and leave it as a straight Phantom M system.

So, how does it sound? It doesn't sound exactly like a Trance permanent tape-mounted Amulet system as I think the epoxy-mounting medium creates a harder and more intimate coupling of the Amulets to the bridge plate. In other words, it has the immediacy of a Dazzo system and a more full in your face tone like a K&K system but without the EQ rigors of the K&K. The string-to-string balance is excellent and reflects what the guitar is doing acoustically.

Overall, I'm pleased with this installation and will use my Grace Design FELiX 2 preamp most of the time to power the Trance Amulet Phantom M and to utilize the FELiX 2's more extensive EQ capabilities for fine-tuning to various encountered conditions.

Maybe, sometime soon, I'll post some sound samples of this Trance Amulet M Phantom installation and also my recently done Dazzo #70 Set in my Larrivee D-40R.

Thanks for Looking In & Questions and Comments are Welcome!

SpruceTop

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

... pickup/preamp system installed using 6-Minute Epoxy.

First of all, let me say this system is HOT! Using the 15-foot Canare XLR Instrument cable I purchased from Trance along with the M Phantom system, I plugged straight into my LR Baggs Synapse Personal PA with its 48-volt phantom power engaged on Channel 1 and with all EQ flat, it has me hitting the -20 dB PAD button on the channel and that's with the channel gain knob at about only 1/3 of its rotation toward max. This is the hottest system I've ever plugged in! If desired, the cover on the onboard Phantom M preamp can be removed and the overall Gain of the preamp can be adjusted + or - 14 dB, The relative volume balance of the two independent preamp channels can also be adjusted if desired. Also, inside, is a Phase switch that can have the two Amulets in-phase or out of phase.

The mounting of the two Amulets is easy with the 6-Minute Epoxy as I could slide them along a pencil line drawn on the bridge plate under the saddle line with the aid of a template I made of foam-board. I got the Amulets where I wanted them located by looking through the bridge-pin holes with two LED lights and a mirror inside. I located the Amulets similarly to Trance Audio's recommended positioning and let the epoxy set. It takes about 24-hours for the epoxy to finish hardening but you're good to play the guitar after one-half hour to an hour after installation of the transducers, be they Trance Amulets or my Dazzos in two other Larrivees

Although I ordered the Trance M Phantom system with the M-VT option, it came with the straight-ahead Phantom M only jumper in place in the onboard preamp so I thought, why not try it straight-up and leave installing the Volume/Tone soundhole module and its wire harness for later. Frankly, after hearing the system, I'll likely not install the M-VT option and leave it as a straight Phantom M system.

So, how does it sound? It doesn't sound exactly like a Trance permanent tape-mounted Amulet system as I think the epoxy-mounting medium creates a harder and more intimate coupling of the Amulets to the bridge plate. In other words, it has the immediacy of a Dazzo system and a more full in your face tone like a K&K system but without the EQ rigors of the K&K. The string-to-string balance is excellent and reflects what the guitar is doing acoustically.

Overall, I'm pleased with this installation and will use my Grace Design FELiX 2 preamp most of the time to power the Trance Amulet Phantom M and to utilize the FELiX 2's more extensive EQ capabilities for fine-tuning to various encountered conditions.

Maybe, sometime soon, I'll post some sound samples of this Trance Amulet M Phantom installation and also my recently done Dazzo #70 Set in my Larrivee D-40R.

Thanks for Looking In & Questions and Comments are Welcome!

SpruceTop

Thanks for the detailed write up! I am intrigued by the fact that you noticed a more full tone. That was my complaint with the regular Amulet tape install, I just noticed that the strings were a bit thin sounding. Nothing like how my K&k Larrivee sounds. Now the question is, do I try epoxy with my Amulet or just go to the Dazzo.

[Gordon Currie]

Man, if I wasn't so 'allergic' to active systems (with internal batteries or phantom power) I would likely have gone to the Amulet years ago. Most of the demos I have heard sound great.

Looking forward to hearing both systems. I know and love Dazzo, but ANY passive piezo system is going to have impedance issues, and those disappear with a good active system.

[Doug Young]

I skipped the M-VT thing in my phantom system as well. It just seemed to sound great without it, and you have EQ on the board anyway. Not sure if it was the phantom system or the guitar, or luck. I prefer having the tone control to roll off some highs on the regular M system.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Thanks for the detailed write up! I am intrigued by the fact that you noticed a more full tone. That was my complaint with the regular Amulet tape install, I just noticed that the strings were a bit thin sounding. Nothing like how my K&k Larrivee sounds. Now the question is, do I try epoxy with my Amulet or just go to the Dazzo.

Scott, I've always thought the Trance with permanent tape installation sounded good but I heard it as sounding a bit thin compared to superglue-mounted, other pickup installations I'd done over the years. As you've read over the years, I've always wondered how the Trance would sound if the Amulets were mounted with superglue instead of the permanent tape which is .009" inches thick and remains somewhat pliable even long after being installed. I've believed that aside from its easy removal quality, the permanent tape is a hindrance to realizing the full potential of the Trance Amulet system. The Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy can be applied thinly to the bottom of the Amulets and will dry hard like a superglue enabling a more efficient vibration transfer from the bridge plate to the Amulets.

According to Teddy Randazzo, Dazzo pickups can be removed quite easily when using epoxy. The Dazzo transducer benefits from being a triangular box with its covered opening on top and with the one-piece bottom and sides comprising the remainder of the enclosure. This means that a Dazzo presents a unified bottom/sides structure to the bridge plate and won't come apart during removal. The Trance is constructed of a one-piece top and sides box with its vibration sensing bottom inserted into the box. It's very rugged and doesn't come apart when removing the Amulet when installed with permanent tape. Using epoxy to install the Amulets may present a greater chance of damaging the Amulets during removal but I think using a gradual prying method to remove the Amulets will not cause any damage to them as the overall Amulet structure is very rugged.

Something to remember is that Trance Amulets were originally installed using Barge Cement which I'm assuming cures hard like Henkel's Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy. Thus, an alternative to the newer Trance permanent tape mounting method has precedent. Likely, the permanent tape was developed to facilitate the relocation of the Amulets, if desired, to assist in achieving a better-amplified tone. I've always installed the Trance Amulets with the bass-side Amulet skewed slightly outward along and straddling the saddle line and with the treble-side Amulet skewed just a tad outward along and straddling the saddle line. This helps ensure the two E-string vibrations are strongly picked up by the Amulets.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I skipped the M-VT thing in my phantom system as well. It just seemed to sound great without it, and you have EQ on the board anyway. Not sure if it was the phantom system or the guitar, or luck. I prefer having the tone control to roll off some highs on the regular M system.

Thanks, Doug. I too heard the battery-powered Trance Amulet M-VT system as needing to roll off the highs with the Tonewheel to achieve a good amplified tone.

Question: Do you know if Gary Hull of Trance Audio is a member of the Hull family that founded Ampeg in the 1940s back in New Jersey?

I saw the Hull name associated with Ampeg in a recent article in Vintage Guitar Magazine, and it mentioned that Ampeg later relocated to California which is also where Trance Audio is located. That information got me thinking.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Thanks, Doug. I too heard the battery-powered Trance Amulet M-VT system as needing to roll off the highs with the Tonewheel to achieve a good amplified tone.

Question: Do you know if Gary Hull of Trance Audio is a member of the Hull family that founded Ampeg in the 1940s back in New Jersey?

I saw the Hull name associated with Ampeg in a recent article in Vintage Guitar Magazine, and it mentioned that Ampeg later relocated to California which is also where Trance Audio is located. That information got me thinking.

Interesting possibility. I have no idea, tho.

[jamison162]

I wish the Trance pickups could be installed passively for use with an external preamp and eq. I prefer all my processing to be done on the floor. I have no idea what all eq curves and processing is done in the active Amulet preamp, and I just don't want a large endpin mounted preamp inside my guitar (added weight and a pain to change batteries).

Anyone ever experimented with "cutting the cord" and running the Amulets passively? Works for K&K, JJB, Dazzo, etc.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jamison162

Anyone ever experimented with "cutting the cord" and running the Amulets passively? Works for K&K, JJB, Dazzo, etc.

I tried it once. Even with a Felix with 70db of gain, it wasn't enough. Maybe I did something wrong, not sure. The end-pin module is very similar to many other pickups, not really a big deal to me anyway. The battery's more of an annoyance, since you have to change it now and then. If you want passive, I'd stick with K&K or Dazzo or Schatten HFN, or iBeam, or Black Angel, or PUTW or McIntyre, or... lots of options

[Petty1818]

I don't fully understand the internal battery hate. How often do you really have to change it? I don't gig a lot these days, but at one time I was doing 2-3 shows a week. I can't remember once where my battery died. Generally it would be me changing the battery every six months when I would do a string change, just to be safe.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I don't fully understand the internal battery hate. How often do you really have to change it? I don't gig a lot these days, but at one time I was doing 2-3 shows a week. I can't remember once where my battery died. Generally it would be me changing the battery every six months when I would do a string change, just to be safe.

I just played with a guy whose battery died between tunes :-) I've never had an issue with it myself, I just change them now and then, and indeed not very often. But I do find simplicity appealing, and like the idea of not having a cheap battery-powered preamp in the chain. All my pickups are passive, except for the Trance ones. No battery is also one less thing to come loose and bang around inside your guitar if you're traveling.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I just played with a guy whose battery died between tunes :-) I've never had an issue with it myself, I just change them now and then, and indeed not very often. But I do find simplicity appealing, and like the idea of not having a cheap battery-powered preamp in the chain. All my pickups are passive, except for the Trance ones. No battery is also one less thing to come loose and bang around inside your guitar if you're traveling.

Now that you mention it, that's a pet peeve of mine. I know it can happen to anyone, but I am in a celtic group where the other guitar player doesn't prepare well for gigs. He often shows up with strings that should have been changed or doesn't have power cables etc. On more than one occasion, his battery has died and he hasn't had a spare. That stuff irritates me as I like to be professional.

I am not coming down on the guy you played with, it just triggered my pet peeve!

[SpruceTop]

After a week of not playing it, and with the new strings I put on the guitar last week now settled in, and the epoxy fully cured, I'm once again playing the Trance Amulet M Phantom installation in my Larrivee C-03 TE Tommy Emmanuel into my LR Baggs Synapse Personal PA with all EQ flat. The amplified tone sounds even better than I remember from last Saturday after the installation. First of all, the Larrivee C-03 TE Tommy Emmanuel is a super guitar for a solo act as it's full-toned with a dreadnought-like bass and is easy to play with its light-gauge D'Addario EJ-16 strings and 12-fret cutaway design. My Trance Amulet M Phantom installation with the Amulet transducers mounted using Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy has brought out what I believe a Trance Amulet system should sound like and is capable of sounding like! All strings amplify as nicely balanced in their output while capturing the resonance, smoothness, and steel-string dynamics of the guitar. This is the best-sounding installation I've ever done of an acoustic guitar pickup/preamp system.

[jamison162]

Alright SpruceTop, when do we get sound samples of the Amulet epoxy install? Also, being as you have two (?) Dazzo equipped guitars, how does the plugged in sound compare between the Dazzo and Amulet? Which do you prefer thus far?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by jamison162

Alright SpruceTop, when do we get sound samples of the Amulet epoxy install? Also, being as you have two (?) Dazzo equipped guitars, how does the plugged in sound compare between the Dazzo and Amulet? Which do you prefer thus far?

I'll see what I can do but all direct-to-computer pickup/preamp samples sound pretty much like pickups. I haven't played the Dazzo-equipped guitars back to back with my Trance-equipped guitar so I can't make a tonal judgment at this point but will try them all this weekend. Dazzo and Trance, to me, are the best single-source SBTs on the market. Also, is Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy the "new" substitute for superglue? It's easier to work with and cleans up much easier too while giving similar intimate bonding of transducer to bridgeplate.